Convectors without traps on two-pipe steam?

nicatniter

I have two-pipe steam that appears to be a Webster Type R system, serving 9 in-wall convectors and 6 radiators (total EDR 570). The system dates from 1929, originally coal but now gas boiler (new).

I'm updating the radiator traps (Webster 512) with Barnes and Jones cage inserts, but when I got to the convector traps (also 512's, located in the basement near the ceiling) they are all EMPTY except for the 1/4 dia inch seat. Most of the convectors heat just fine but I'm wondering if I should go ahead with inserts on these traps, or just clean them out and close them back up. The original specs for these convectors definitely call for traps on a vapor/vacuum sytem! So I am wondering why there were removed/never installed.

The 2 mains are vented with twin Webster 512's, by the way, and the condensate return vent is a Hoffman 75, which I also plan to replace since it's been in place for at least 25 years. I'm also wondering if there is anything I (or someone) should do to maintain the boiler return trap (the big watermelon) and the return F&T trap.

Steamhead

I bet the trap inserts failed closed, and someone removed them. You need to put them back. Tunstall and Barnes & Jones both make repair kits for these traps.

Replace that Hoffman vent with a Gorton #2, which will vent almost four times faster.

Then watch how well it works.

nicatniter

Thanks, Steamhead, I have some Tunstalls on order and I will get the Gorton #2, hope this will help with short cycling (boiler is oversized too). I am not sure if a Vaporstat will help as well but that seems to be recommended for systems like mine that operate best at very low pressure.

nicatniter

As a followup, I've gotten all the missing traps replaced, with excellent results, but -- funny story -- it turned out to be "a bridge too far" because I ended up directing steam into what appears to be a walled-up convector in a part of the house where a hallway was turned into a first-floor half-bath long ago! The thermostatic trap for this convector (located in the basement) had failed closed and they apparently just left it and the riser in place. When I made the trap functional again, I unwittingly turned a section of wall into a mini-heat source! (I'd mistakely thought this trap serviced a 2nd floor bathroom convector). Since I don't particularly need a hot wall, I put the old failed trap back in.

vaporvac

Maybe you just need to open up that wall! That's hilarious.

nicatniter

Wife would not approve - check out the wallpaper
Also the heat thermostat is on the other wall just to the right of the photo, would not be great for balance, since that room already heats a bit too fast... I'm still a bit puzzled why they had a convector there in the first place! All the others are on outside walls under a window. There is one other 'dead' trap in the basement (never heats, never fills), leading to who knows where. House is full of secrets!

ChicagoCooperator

What's on the far side of the wall? They might have sized things for open windows or a cold hallway sort of thing.

vaporvac

I'm grooving on that wallpaper, btw. What's it called and who makes it?

ChicagoCooperator

vaporvac said:

I'm grooving on that wallpaper, btw. What's it called and who makes it?

Looks William Morris inspired to me (English neighbor has similar in her foyer). It seems a lot of old house/steam lovers here have houses that should be featured. Perhaps another section, "fitting steam into vintage decor" or some such?

vaporvac

That's a great idea! We might even allow some HW, so as not to feel too superior.

nicatniter

I think you are on to something, @ChicagoCooperator, the kitchen is on the other side-- although that area's covered by a kitchen cabinet now, it was once an open space (yellow mark). We are lucky enough to have the original drawings for the house (although the designs don't include any plumbing/heating details) .

The wall paper -- I couldn't say what it is but definitely has the Art Deco look.

I've seen lots of oohs and ahs for vintage radiators (and boilers) on this site, so a 'Decorating with Steam' section seems perfectly appropriate. Also tidiest/trashiest basements. @DanHolohan?

ChicagoCooperator

Is there another radiator/convector in the kitchen? Or was it snuck in as a side outlet for the service hall? Nice to have the original plans - something we lack. They were stolen - there was a framed floor plan in our foyer that was stolen along with a stone/concrete console table and bench, which was suspected to have been perpetrated by a contractor working in somebody's unit, but I'm rambling....

nicatniter

Some neighbors had rescued the plans years ago when a local firm was cleaning house... presented four sheets (3 levels + elevation) to us shortly after we moved in, so they are now framed in our stairwell. Somehow I don't think they will be first on the list if we are burgled (it's a one of a kind house), but too bad about yours!

There is another convector in the kitchen outside wall. Puzzling that they would have felt the need to install a convector next to the cook stove... !