Combustion testing

ThermalJake

I posted on another thread about my Megasteam 513 and sooting up. Since last time, I added some combustion air and cleaned out the boiler, then ordered my new (used) Fyrite kit; In the meantime, I had my oil company send a guy out to give me a quick test and adjustment. Now that I got my own combustion kit, I checked it out myself and compared to the results from the oil tech. I'd like to get some feedback from you:

First, he adjusted the draft for .05 at the flue test hole - it was not that far off. My test yesterday reveals that it is still .05 at the flue, but -0.05 over the fire (backdraft.) I know the Megasteam has baffles but that seems excessive. I cant believe that it could be sooted up again - and so bad to create that restrictive draft! (I'll get to the smoke test momentarily) I opened it back up a week after the cleanup and affirmed that it had not sooted back up.

Second, he could not get any smoke to appear on his tester. I asked him to restrict the air to get some smoke, and then give it some more. He did this, but never got any smoke on the paper. Yesterday, I tried three different smoke testers (one continuous tester and two pumps) and could not get any smoke either - I even turned the air band down to 0 (zero) but still - nothing. I did not close the plate because I wanted some feedback first.

He reported a temp of 350 F, I got about 385 F once, and next time 390 F. So my Delta is probably between 330-350.

I did not do the CO2 test yet, because I think the liquid is old, and has sediment in it. I might want to clean it out and replace it first.

So...
I am trying to tune this in as best I can. As I understand it, the draft is good, but I am confused about the positive draft over the fire. Should I consider taking out the baffles? Or will that reduce the purpose of the triple-pass in the Megasteam?
Second, why cant I get smoke? Especially since it previously sooted up? This is also confusing.

Thanks,
Thermaljake

icesailor

Your old, used "wet Kit" is almost as useless as tits on a chicken.

If the "tech" that tested your system was using a "Wet Kit", he's useless too.

First of al, you need to make 9 pumps on the smoke tester.

Then, with the air band wide open, if it stays running, the paper should have a slight tinge of yellow. As you take the air away, the yellow goes away.

Using a Wet Kit is like looking at a reel of movie film, looking at a few frames, and deciding what the movie is about.

A digital analyzer takes a screen shot in a moment.

If the Tech was using a digital analyzer, your results with a wet kit won't even be on the same planet.

The best part of your wet kit is the AMZ draft gauge, the smoke tester, and the extra thermometer.

I doubt the solution is bad. It lasts a very long time. As long as the fluid level is in the adjustable range, there it will give you a reading. If the instructions are in the kit, there is a way to check the CO2 tester with atmospheric atmosphere.

billtwocase

I will echo what Ice said. I would check for a disconnected hose on your smoke tester though. Just inside the spring, they would disconnect or crack

icesailor

Also, to add to Billtwocase said, the internal slide on the pump needs to be lubricated. Put your finger over the brass tube and pull back on the handle. If it pulls back, there is a leak. If working properly, and you stick it into a smoky exhaust, you won't be able to pull the handle back once the smoke paper is fouled with soot.

STEVEusaPA

OP. Just to clarify, your draft measurements seem backwards. -.05 over the fire is not backdraft. If it's -.05 over the fire and +.05 at the breach, you're plugged up. You may also be under fired.
You probably can't get smoke because either the smoke gun is defective or your not using it properly.
Don't forget when you read the thermometer in the flue pipe you need to deduct for ambient temperature.
You didn't mention if you have a draft regulator.
My advice would be to get a true professional to really properly check everything, and stop trying to adjust it yourself.

ThermalJake

Thanks guys. I threw away the old C1200 Beckett tester because I could not get any parts for it, could not get a smoke response, and I could not rely on it. I cannot attest to the results from the oil tech that showed up.
I tested the smoke tester I got on line and it was not air-tight.
And the one I got in the Bacharach kit was disconnected under the spring. Great - now that that is fixed I'll recheck for smoke tomorrow.
As far as the draft is concerned, I have -0.05 at the breach; but over the fire, it is +0.05. For any of you who don't know, this Megasteam 513 has baffles installed to slooooow the flue gasses through the triple pass so it gives off more heat to the water than normal. I just didn't know if this was too much difference in draft. I already cleaned out the sooted up passages, and rechecked them last week, so I know it is not plugged (although that is the indication from the draft measurement.)
I am going to go with the smoke test, and the CO2; just curious about the draft (if anyone has any insights)
Thanks,
Jake

icesailor

I've never seen or worked on a Mega-Steam, but if it has a Beckett AFG fixed head type burner, I have never seen one that was a happy camper with positive pressure against the burner. The Positive pressure draft makes that coke build up on the retention head and then makes them smoke like one of those old 1950 Diesels going up the big hill to Denver.

If the boiler became seriously sooted up, it might not yet be clean.

ThermalJake

Well guys - I fixed the leak in the smoke tester, and rechecked it today. Great news - I was able to adjust the air band down to a 0 (really about a 1/2) and I got smoke! First time ever.
- Okay, so I adjusted it down till I got smoke, and then up till I got none. Good.
- I rechecked the draft - I got -0.05 at the breach, and +0.05 over the fire. I checked the head and nozzle, but they don't seem to be sooted up in any appreciable way.
- I'm running about a 395 degree F in the stack, minus about 60 degrees F in the room, brings me to about 335; this seems a little low, but might be okay since the flue in the Mega Steam runs different than my old V75.
- The Fyrite fluid look okay, but is too low for me to get a reading. I need to add some more. So. if you have any suggestions where to buy, I'm all ears.
- Thanks for your help so far, and for any new help.
- Jake

icesailor

Normally, you only have to add a small amount of distilled water into it to bring up the fluid level to a readable level. You can use tap water. I always topped mine off with DW. Set the instrument upright. Put a small amount of water on the top. Push the plunger down. The water will flow into the chamber. Shake it up. Set the scale. DO NOT OVERFILL IT!!!. Its nasty to drain a small amount out.

You still have way too much positive draft over the fire for a Beckett to work properly.

You can't learn how to operate that thing on your first and only burner. It takes many to gain the experience of what you are doing. Then comes the intuition part.

ThermalJake

Thanks; I added DW. works great. I tested with breath as the book describes. tested well.
Also, I got a reading of about 12, so I know I have to decrease the air; I have room to decrease before I get smoke, so that will improve my efficiency slightly.
I am concerned about that draft though. I rechecked at the breach and over the fire while manually adjusting the barometric regulator; As closed as I could get it, I pushed the breach up to about -0.08, and over the fire was still +0.02. I know that the baffles in this boiler have an effect here, and since I know some of the steam guys are familiar, I'm going to make a post in that forum too; maybe we'll get some insight there.
Thanks for your help - and don't worry - I'm not abandoning this thread.
Jake

icesailor

I think the boiler has too much restriction. There is more to what you are trying to do than just futzing with the barometric.

There's also pump pressure. Was this a recent boiler installation and the burner came on the boiler? The I/O manual should give you the specs for the burner you are using. Higher pump pressure is a good way to get better atomization. You need special gauges.

icesailor

Do you have the correct I/O manual for your model of a Mega Steam boiler? The cleaning instructions are really detailed in the manual. Its my experience that the "average" soot sucker wouldn't or couldn't take the time to clean it as thoroughly as outlined.

The other thing about having high pressure over the fire is over firing for the conditions. Like draft in the flue and through the boiler. On the earlier (pre-2012) models, they have a special port to check draft over the fire. Are you using that port?

You have never said what kind of burner you are using or what it is fired at. All oil burner nozzles are not equal in all applications.

Getting the stack temperature doesn't always mean you have increased the efficiency. There's a difference between getting the stack temperature down because the boiler is cleaner and absorbing more heat energy than lowering the temperature by using a smaller nozzle and having the same dirty boiler.

The only Megasteam boiler I have ever seen is a PDF of one,

ThermalJake

Thanks for the input. I think the boiler has too much restriction too. I just re-checked the I/O manual to see if I missed anything in the cleaning section, but I don't think so. However, I'm going to re-clean it, just to make sure. It seems pretty straight-forward; although I know the average tech might not be methodical and persistent enough to do it.
This is a new installation, from October. It replaces my Burnham V75. It has an AFG and is fired with a Hago 1.00 x 60B. It calls for 180 psi pump pressure (which I checked during installation), and I will re-check it again.
After another cleaning, and air adjustment, I will test a few things: the book gives different stack temps for "baffles-in" and "baffles-out". That will be my first test. I think I'm going to find a better draft reading with the baffles out, but we'll see when I get there.
Jake