Ultimate Oil Boiler w/water leaking from below - considering replacement

historicalwork

While I know it may be a regret, our budget wouldn't allow for the ODR. I'm hoping that's not a major mistake. We just had to balance what we could do in combination with chimney lining costs. The boiler is in a corner of a semi-finished basement that is used for the washing machine, dryer, etc. So it's in condition space for the most part.

SWEI

historicalwork said:

While I know it may be a regret, our budget wouldn't allow for the ODR.

Basic boiler reset is not all that expensive.

icesailor

Some here must not have ever done anything with oil and appreciate the flexibility of it. Or any boiler for that matter.

Some of us might have noticed that the maximum rating of a boiler is what the manufacturer can honestly claim following federal guidelines for rating. Or, what the boiler will deliver under ideal test conditions in a factory with perfectly adjusted equipment. Some of us who care have found that those ideal conditions can never be met in the real world of field operations. That any oil or gas appliance will come through at the maximum rate that the manufacturer advertises. But we have found that they test out far better when you lower the firing rate to a level below the stated amount. Then, you get the maximum efficiency out of the burner/boiler. If you have a boiler rated to fire at 1.10 GPH, they usually run better at 1.00 GPH or .85 GPH. Or at least any that I ever worked on. If they are rated at .90, they run fine at .75 to .85 GPH. Whenever you fire below .75 GPH, you start running Into control issues. Buy the 5 section and fire it like a 4 section. The 4 section will never run as well as the 5 will. Guaranteed from experience.

Then, there's the dubious heat loss calculation. It must be one large hacienda to be loosing 110,000 BTU's per hour. It either doesn't have any insulation (and needs some) or the calculation factors are grossly misunderstood. You can't just download the free Slant-Fin Heat Loss Explorer and run it. Without understanding what you are trying to do. IBR taught thousands to use their heat loss systems, which were heavily peer reviewed and designed by engineers that did that sort of thing. Picking out window heat loss factors without knowing the relationship between the wall and the window? Or why one window has one loss factor over another?

Some are suggesting factoring in window shades? When the leaves on the Rhododendron's are all shriveled up on a cold day and the Sun is out, you won't be keeping the shades down. Unless you prefer to live in a cave. And you WILL be cold.

Most people rent cars and the rental has cruise control on it. But most don't use it. Most people wouldn't pay extra for cruise control unless it came with the car. My wife has NEVER used cruise control. And she never will. You don't need to know how it works to use it. Just how it operates.

Is Big Vinnie now doing Youse Tubes videos on how to do heat loss calculations? Big Vinnie: You' Da man.

SWEI

Rough translation for all of the above: A competent professional brings in-depth knowledge of local building types and weather patterns to the table. They matter -- a lot.

historicalwork

I can certainly appreciate the comments about heat loss and I put the most weight on the figure the contractor provided. And I can accept that what I did in an attempt to confirm or do a sanity check on the numbers on my own amounts to a harry homeowner calculation with little to no confidence. I did not mean to suggest otherwise.

Rich_49

You are in the very best hands with Dan Foley . You can now close down this discussion

billtwocase

The energizer bunny thread

historicalwork

A quick thank you for all the information gained here. In the end we got a Buderus G115WS/4 installed with Riello burner and Aquasmart w/ODR. I guess will see how all the estimations like heat loss stack up against reality as we get some cold nights. I am going to talk with the technician in the AM as they do a few final things because on this first night I can hear the boiler firing up for 3-5 minutes when one of the zones (floors) calls. I can see on the Aquasmart panel that it is in economizing mode with a high limit of 167 degrees. I'm guessing the differential is what causes it to cut on at a certain temperature, heat back up to the limit, cut off, continue circulating to satisfy the zone, and then either shut off circulation or fire back up to re-heat if so low limit is reached. Hopefully they'll make some adjustments in the AM and I'll learn a little bit more about how it all works.

historicalwork

I thought I would revive my older thread to ask my question. First, the 2015/2016 was the first season with the new Buderus boiler. And while I didn't yet take the time to do any formal calculations, oil consumption was definitely down from our first two years in the house with an old leaky oil boiler. I would also add that we had some cold days last season and we had no issues with the boiler keeping up. I was glad about that because - following advice on this forum - I resisted the larger size boiler.

So, overall, the boiler has been good. But while I thought one issue was resolved, I noticed something with the burn times again. I happened to be in the basement doing laundry and heard the burner fire up - but within a minute it was off. It doesn't seem to happen all the time. In fact, as I'm typing this, I can hear the burner / boiler running - it's been going for a few minutes or so. But I looked through the module on top of the unit to see the history and there are a number of shorter burn times.

We have a service contract with the company that installed the boiler and I was going to ask them to come out. I know from past discussions there are many variables in play. But, generally speaking, is it fair to say that the boiler should be set to run for X minutes? Or, is the fact that the history would show less than one minute or 1-2 min burn times suggest an obvious need for adjustment? It's possible the service guys will recognize the issue and fix it. But I just want to know myself what is generally expected - if one can say.

As a reminder, we have a Buderus G115WS/4 installed with Riello burner and Aquasmart w/ODR (I checked and the signal to the ODR is operating - it was reading the right outdoor temp).

STEVEusaPA

With multiple zones, you will get short cycling, it's just the way it is with your set up. Even if the boiler is properly sized for the entire house, it's always over sized when only one zone calls.
You can try a smaller nozzle which will help a little, only if combustion equipment confirms it's ok, or add a properly sized buffer tank.

historicalwork

OK - i didn't think about the fact that when a single zone calls it's like a system a 1/3 of the size. Still, I figured being that our house is far from energy efficient (115 year old brick house), with a certain range of water temperature, it will still run for some reasonable period of time. Maybe what I'm missing is that a specific loop of water circulating in a single zone doesn't take that much time to bring up to the high temperature limit - regardless of the delta between high and low.