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DRopped Header offset question

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In order to avoid the flue opening on the boiler I have offset the header. The attached photo should help. Ignore all the couplings, they were put there on the horizontal dropped header for measurements only. My question is is it OK to drop the header then off set it as is shown in the photo. I have not put together the other riser yet, so the photo only shows one riser and half of the dropped header. Comments appreciated.

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  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,741
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    I can't imagine why it would be a problem as long as you make sure you have a bit of slope back to the equalizer. Question though, couldn't you shorten the horizontal run on the riser you already have installed? Might not be obvious in the picture why you can't. One comment you should think about rotating the pressuretrol and gauge 90°. The general rule is if you are looking at the gauge and looking through the hole you need to turn it 90°. I don't think it's as big of a deal with modern "non-mercury" switches, buts it's good practice. Looking good so far! Are you enjoying it?
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    KC_Jones said:

    I can't imagine why it would be a problem as long as you make sure you have a bit of slope back to the equalizer. Question though, couldn't you shorten the horizontal run on the riser you already have installed? Might not be obvious in the picture why you can't. One comment you should think about rotating the pressuretrol and gauge 90°. The general rule is if you are looking at the gauge and looking through the hole you need to turn it 90°. I don't think it's as big of a deal with modern "non-mercury" switches, buts it's good practice. Looking good so far! Are you enjoying it?

    First, yes we are enjoying it! Two local dist. of 3 and 4 inch pipe don't have the 10" nipples we need for the horizontal part of the riser! We would have to travel 35 minutes each way to have a 10" nipple made or 3 days to come in if ordered!! WTHeck? So I was trying to come up with a "today" solution. Also the 10" nipple instead of the 12" that is there now would cause me to offset the equalizer, so I do have to offset something and am not clear on the ramifications of offsetting either one. KC I read somewhere the pigtail should be positioned so that you cannot see the "donut" when looking at it as you facing the side of the unit it is placed on, so I rotated the pigtail and will have to rotate the gauge and pressuretrol so it faces out. Do you know if the pigtail must be positioned so the donut does not run parallel with the side of the unit? I tried to find it in the LAoSH but couldn't. I will do a search here first. Thank you for responding yet again, it is appreciated.

  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,741
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    The orientation of the pigtail matters more with relation to the pressuretrol than the boiler. I think the reason it is written that way is they assume you will have the pressuretrol oriented so you can see it when looking at the side of the boiler. Supply issues huh? Well you already said there isn't much steam in your area. I had similar issues when I did mine I ended up going through Supplyhouse.com my local guy was a joke...ALL cast iron fittings were special order?!
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    Ahhh, Ok, Our largest pipe threader is 2", and supply for the piping is ridiculous around here, I have no idea what the large commercial sprinkler and HVAC companies do here unless they design/build and order all in advance. I will check out the web you suggested. I have to order the Gorton #2's in here also, local suppliers only carry Hoffman 75's.
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    Why not just angle the horizontal portion of the riser about 45 to the right? With the equalizer you can angle the elbow down off the header at a 45 to hit the vertical. Not sure that makes sense.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,779
    edited December 2014
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    Pigtail orientation doesn't really matter anymore unless you're using an old style mercury pressuretrol like I am. Basically the deal is as the pigtail heats and cools it slightly winds and unwinds and if you put it the otherway it would tilt the pressuretrol side to side and effect it's setting.

    With a non-mercury type pressuretrol it doesn't matter either way.


    The main concern with your header is making sure water drains freely. If both risers go into it and get the steam going towards the mains and then towards the drain (equalizer) and it's all pitched good it should work beautifully. Try to avoid making it hold any water, though all of the tees will have puddles in them no matter what you do it's not a big deal. When I built mine I made sure I had some of the piping cut different lengths to force it to pitch in the right direction.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    Why not just angle the horizontal portion of the riser about 45 to the right? With the equalizer you can angle the elbow down off the header at a 45 to hit the vertical. Not sure that makes sense.

    Not a bad idea, thanks.

  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    ChrisJ said:

    Pigtail orientation doesn't really matter anymore unless you're using an old style mercury pressuretrol like I am. Basically the deal is as the pigtail heats and cools it slightly winds and unwinds and if you put it the otherway it would tilt the pressuretrol side to side and effect it's setting.

    With a non-mercury type pressuretrol it doesn't matter either way.


    The main concern with your header is making sure water drains freely. If both risers go into it and get the steam going towards the mains and then towards the drain (equalizer) and it's all pitched good it should work beautifully. Try to avoid making it hold any water, though all of the tees will have puddles in them no matter what you do it's not a big deal. When I built mine I made sure I had some of the piping cut different lengths to force it to pitch in the right direction.

    Thanks Chris I was hoping I could pitch everything toward the equalizer a bit although it won't look as nice as a level header would.!
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,741
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    lol a pitched header looks beautiful to us!
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    Couple of things:


    I understand your urgency to get it done today, but consider #2 as somewhat serious as it doesn't even come close to providing the 15" dimension.

    Hatterasguy, is the 15" dimension vertical or horizontal? Here is another pic. The connection between the dropped header and the steam main is more than 15" both horizontal and vertical. The connection to the main is the union you see attached to insulated piping toward the top left of center in the pic. I certainly do not want to rush anything that will cause problems. I hate callbacks! Rather do it right now than do it twice.
    Give me your thoughts please, thanks.

  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    Dad gummit, I forgot to attach the pic here it is.... you will have to right click on the X and open as a preview. I am.....computer challenged.
  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    KC_Jones said:

    lol a pitched header looks beautiful to us!

    I can't wait to learn the simplest of things :0)
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    Angling the left side riser to the right will give you some distance between the takeoff for the main and the riser connection. I also like to angle the right side riser in towards the middle to reduce weight of the header. :-)
  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    I am a bit confused...... this is a 2 pipe system with a 3" and 1 1/2" mains the front of the boiler is in the photo the partially completed header is on the left side of the boiler (looking at the front of the boiler). The dry return you can barely see on the left rear of the pic runs on top of the HWH. I removed the vertical piping you see on the right side of the HWH. This new return will run along the back of the boiler close to the wall, 15" from the end I am going to install 2 #2 Gortons. This pipe will then drop down into the wet return and come back to the boiler with a Hartford loop. The system has an F&T and an inverted bucket. I am adding vents at the end of both mains. Whaddid I miss? Clue me in!
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    Also, I'm not sure what boiler that is, but aren't we looking at the "front" of the boiler there? I agree with it being kinda close to the wall, but I believe that's the "back" that's close to the wall. No?
  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    Also, I'm not sure what boiler that is, but aren't we looking at the "front" of the boiler there? I agree with it being kinda close to the wall, but I believe that's the "back" that's close to the wall. No?

    Yes, the front of the boiler is in view, as is the left side it is a Utica, front panel is off of the unit. The riser you are looking at is on the left side of the boiler, orientation would be standing in front of the boiler.

  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    I am a bit confused...... the front of the boiler is in the photo

    We have to stop right here and get this resolved.

    Take a look at the installation manual.

    The side outlets are at the REAR of the machine.

    The vent is at the FRONT of the machine.


    Yes or no?
    The return connections are at the bottom rear on each side of the boiler, the supply's are on the side toward the front of the boiler. So on the left side of the boiler you can see where I installed a 2" nipple, 2 tee with a skim port and then a bell increaser to go from 2" to 3" which is attached to the riser, the horizontal portion of the riser is heading toward the back of the boiler, then drops to just above the top of the boiler the horizontal section of piping going across the top of the boiler will connect to the riser onto the right side, when I get it installed that is, the riser on the right has not been installed yet. Is that clearer than mud?

  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    OK, my bad.

    ECR did completely reverse the connections on the Utica. The side outlets are at the front of the machine and the vent is at the rear of the machine.

    All of the boilers that they make for others (Bryant, Green Mountain, Lennox...........) are opposite.

    Ok so what do you think about the piping now?

  • JudySweetland
    JudySweetland Member Posts: 120
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    OK will do. Thanks
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
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    "" First, yes we are enjoying it! Two local dist. of 3 and 4 inch pipe don't have the 10" nipples we need for the horizontal part of the riser! """

    Do you have a Power Drive that will thread up to 2" pipe?

    Do you have access to a larger geared threader that will thread the pipe you need? Will the geared threader hold the piece of pipe you need and you can still clamp and hold it? They use a device like a drive shaft that connects the geared threader to a power drive and spins the threader. You just have to securely clamp the larger pipe onto a secure table with a chain vice or a chain vise stand.

    If you charge $60.00 per hour, that's $1.00 per minute. For the length of the discussion, you could have easily paid for Fed-Ex overnight. Where I used to work, we used a lot of Overnight or 2-day delivery. If you needed it and ordered it to be delivered by the company truck, you would get it the following Wednesday, maybe Tuesday afternoon when they unloaded the 53' trailer.

    If you ordered it before the last pick-up by Fed-Ex, you could have it the next day, Friday.