Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Electricity costs

SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
Wanted to continue this discussion away from an already overcrowded thread, so here goes:
SWEI said:

icesailor said:

$0.128 Per KWH? That's almost subsidized rates.

Did you take the total cost of the bill at the bottom of the bill, what you owe for the month, and divide by the amount of KWH's you used for that billing period?

In short, yes. That rate represents an average of several residential and small business accounts, though notice I have not accounted for the recent tariff increase that just took effect (the one where we got to absorb PNM's stranded investment in a nuke plant.) Current kWH rates (before taxes and surcharges) range from $0.0906 to $0.1577 per kWH on residential and $0.1286 for small businesses. I'm guessing the net net will come out around $0.13something -- I'll verify next week.
I have been analyzing energy bills for quite a while and have models which properly reflect both fixed and variable costs. Here are the numbers for PNM service in our town from last month, including all taxes and assessments:

Monthly customer charge $5.6279
per kWH (first 450 kWH) $0.134025962
per kWH (next 450 kWH) $0.183180716
per kWH (901+ kWH) $0.21588737

Light commercial:
Customer charge $9.5224068
per kWH: $0.15786766

Ironically this makes commercial service more attractive for a heavy residential user.

Just checked and LPG is currently $3.3501 including GRT. That puts an 80% LPG boiler and commercial electric resistance heat almost exactly on par with each other. Residential requires more analysis, but either way, it makes the choice between a new mod/con and a new electric boiler pretty close (roughly 3x the cap cost on the mod/con, but lower OpEx.) Of course, when the rates change...


  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    So, at the rate and charges you show, if you use 1001 KWH's in any one billing period, the cost is $0.3424 per KWH. If there are any other charges for "demand" or "Fuel Surcharges", the cost goes up higher. That amount is easily obtained if you have an electric dryer and a water pump. 4 children and two adults, and washing clothes.

    It adds up quickly.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,537
    Wow And I'm crying about 11.5 cents after tax title, and license.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    edited December 2014
    icesailor said:

    So, at the rate and charges you show, if you use 1001 KWH's in any one billing period, the cost is $0.3424 per KWH.


    First 450 kWH at Tier 1
    Next 450 kWH at Tier 2
    Last 101 kWH at Tier 3

    Net net comes to about 16.7 cents per kWH including the customer charge. Time for a commercial meter :)
    If there are any other charges for "demand" or "Fuel Surcharges", the cost goes up higher
    Those are included in the rates quoted.

    General and Large Commercial tariffs have a demand charge ($13.10 per kW over 50 kW.) They only pay $0.07 per kWH but the customer charge is $655 per month. All of these rates go up a few percent (a different few percent for each component, of course) during June, July, and August. The spreadsheets can get quite complex when we model this for a business customer.
  • bio_guy
    bio_guy Member Posts: 78
    Often forgotten there is lower cost for buying electric equipment (assuming the service is robust enough) and maintenance.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Not forgotten here at all. A small modulating electric boiler with ODR control costs about 60% less than a gas-fired mod/con does. Once you factor the lack of a requirement for either gas piping or venting, the LPG customers' ears perk up.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    We have de-regulation here in CT. It allows me to purchase my electricity from whomever I choose. I can get an extremely low kwh rate, but I am then stuck paying a ridiculously high rate for the original company to "deliver" it, on a kwh basis. Each KW must wear their wires, a lot, based on the price. What a joke!
  • FranklinD
    FranklinD Member Posts: 399
    edited December 2014
    I read this thread and it piqued my curiosity as I just received our bill in the mail today.

    Electric right now is:
    $0.09396/kWh -- base rate
    $0.0071/kWh --- PCAC Dist Fee
    3% or max -------- St Low Inc Asst Fee
    Customer Charge -- $7.00

    Total: $59.05 for 498 kWh: $0.1185/kWh all averaged together.

    This is at the Arrowhead region of Lake Superior (upper Midwest), Superior, WI, and we buy our electricity from Allete across the bay in MN. That's about all I know about it. There are 2 hydroelectric plants (small ones) within 20 miles as well.

    Edited to add: we are a family of five (but the kids are still young - all close to ten years old)...we have an electric stove/oven, dryer, all cfl/led lighting, and lots of power strips to turn phantom loads off. I lived in a house that was 'off grid' solar for a few years and even 500 kWh seems a bit high to me...but the wife isn't as adventurous about electric savings as I am. Ha.
    Ford Master Technician, "Tinkerer of Terror"
    Police & Fire Equipment Lead Mechanic, NW WI
    Lover of Old Homes & Gravity Hot Water Systems
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,238
    My rate is $00.949 per kwh with all kwh based charges figured in. There is a $28.50 monthly access flat fee, but that is irrelevant because you pay that regardless of what you have hooked up.

    If I put a load on a sub meter that is a Load Control Meter, all electricity that gets used through that is billed at $00.055 per kwh. The company can shut it off whenever they want though.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    edited December 2014
    The total I used was for 2001 KWH.
    I meant to use 1001 KWH's.

    You listed a $5.6279 amount that is a monthly demand charge, That gets included. At one time, electric companies charged that amount for the first 5 KWH's. Your rate structure is unusual because the rate goes UP, the more you use. Rather than DOWN the more you use. Its almost like the numbers are flipped.

    The actual rate usage for 1001 KWW is $0.1678 per KWH.

    What's really unusual is that in the eyes of the utility, it cost them so much per customer to service them. SO, they want to get their minimum charge as fast as they can. They charge way over what it cost to provide. They have picked a minimum number that they want every customer to meet to break even. After than, they used to use a sliding scale DOWN to price their rates. They more you used, the less they could still charge and make a profit. Maybe they have all BS'ed the rate setting authorities.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    I was forced onto "time of day" rate, because of one month a couple summers ago. If I use electricity between noon and 8 P.M. mon thru fri., I pay more. According to the letter I recieved, they would be switching everyone here over, in the next few years. A great month for me would be $120.
  • Jack
    Jack Member Posts: 1,046
    Today I paid $1.92/gal of LP. My daughter filled her 500 a couple months ago for $1.33. I would have filled then but had to run my tank dry due to a gauge malfunction. Own your tank. have sufficient storage, control the buys. That is how lp makes sense
  • MikeG
    MikeG Member Posts: 169
    I live in NW Ohio where everyone complains about high electric rates. We have a nuclear plant and some coal fired plants which are being phased out due to EPA regs. My last bill was $0.12 KWH tax title and out the door. We have a tiered system, but you have to be an accountant to figure it out. I have a cap on LPG this year at $1.96 with tax $2.10. I switched suppliers this year after 35 years. Last year I had some delivered at $4.03. I considered installing an electric boiler in parallel with my mod con. I was using 5 gallons a day and when it hit -10* with 30 MPH winds almost 10 gallons a day. I could have saved quite a bit using electric. I still may go that route if prices spike in the future. I maintain some pumping systems for drainage and flood control as part of my job. I have one system, 2 pumps, 50 HP 460V 3 Phase motors draining about 1100 acres. The utility has a demand charge on this system. If i run 1 pump for 15 minutes in a billing period ( usually 29-32 days the demand meter is reset after reading) I incurr a $400 instant charge. You don't use much electricity in 15 minutes. It's incremental, use 5 min for each of three days and you hit the 15 min. If the second pump comes on for 15 min while the first one is running add another $400. The demand originally was a time of day charge. I had a timer on the system to only run between 8 PM and 8 AM. It reduced the demand. If we had a big storm I just had to bypass the timer and eat the costs. With this system I have no choice. Run it and pay the demad. When they changed they never notified customers. I would go out in the winter and run one pump to keep it ice free. A few minutes today, maybe a few tomorrow etc. I hit the 15 min, you use very little juice and had a bill for $ 10.17 KWH. Generally with real high usage the rate still figures out to be around $0.24 to $0.60 KWH. All these costs are assessed back to the landowners which is mostly agricultural.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    They make engine driven turbine pumps that you can run on LPG.

    In New England, all cranberry growers use turbine pumps powered with LPG powered motors.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    Hollands windmills are not just for pretty pictures.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    They sure do pump a lot of water don't they. Good thing they have a lot of wind there.