Beckett Gun problem

bladelock999

This is my first time to the forum and I appreciate any suggest/help...thanks.

Ok, I own a home and have some knowledge about how things work and can fix alot of things. I have a beckett gun that is about 18 years old but works great. The problem, last season everything worked fine, my oil company sent the tech to clean the boiler, as always. He vaccums, changes the filters, the nozzle (Hago) and the basic things. HOWEVER, this year he changes the electrodes stating that the old one are wearing out. After all said and done, he fires it up and he's done. I starting using the boiler for the winter and I noticed that the Beckett Gun starts in the beginning to go off and on and then continues to work after that. I'm not concerned, however, a few weeks later I noticed that the gun would do it more and more (flames going off and on) only this time it trips the reset button. I reset it and it does it again, I reset same thing, I reset it again and it works. I call the tech, he comes over looks at the gun tells the everything seems to work but the electrodes had to be adjusted. He adjusts the electrodes and everything is fine. few days later the gun does the same thing, but only in the beginning of start up and then runs fine and then maybe once or twice in the duration of the run time. The question, should I have him adjust the electrodes again?

Thanks

billtwocase

First comment I have is that there should only be a Delavan nozzle in it. Second is that it sounds like you have a bad primary control, possibly still has an R8184G cad cell relay. It was wise for him to replace the electrodes, for they don't last forever. We replace them every year, and could care less about comments to the contrary. It is cheap insurance. What unit is the Beckett on-manufacture, model and size? I would also have the "Z" dimension checked after the nozzle is replaced. Any combustion results that you can post with some pics would also help. It can also be a bad zone valve causing to on and off

Kakashi

There should only be a Delavan nozzle. Delavan>Steinen>Hago...in my opinion. I would sit there and soak the delavan nozzle in brake clean rather than go with a hago.

The flame going off and on could be a lot of things. Plugged oil line, bad pump coupling, and the list could go on and on.
If the problem started right after he serviced it, I would guess an air leak in the filter or strainer.
If it started after an oil delivery I would guess a plugged oil filter or strainer.
Could be just a coincidence that it started after the tech was there...it happens...

When the flame goes off and on does it smoke or start with a bigger bang than normal?

icesailor

I agree with Billtwocase (FWIW), Delavan 80 degree hollow (red) or solid (blue) only. Any other manufacturers nozzle of Delavan spray pattern is just asking for a service call.

As far as brake clean or whatever, PVC cleaner works just as well and is worse for you. And cheaper too. Neither will clean out a plugged nozzle strainer. In a pinch, take the strainer off a new, unused nozzle and replace the strainer with a new and clean one. You can't clean them, no matter how hard you try. And if they are clogging up, you need a spin-on filter or two to stop the very fine sludge. If they haven't changed your filter to a spin-on type with a restriction gauge on the filter, they haven't done you any favors.

Kakashi

Yeah, I wouldn't soak anything anytime between Monday through Friday, 8 am to 5 pm unless it is a holiday.
I generally have a box of everything up to 2.00 in delavan solids and hollows. I also have a few w's.
Whatever it takes to get the customer safely through the weekend or night without.

I agree with you 100% and it would be a last resort to soak a nozzle. The spin-on oil filter with vacuum gauge could pretty much tell the OP what is wrong as well.

icesailor

@Kakashi:

Kakashi said:

Yeah, I wouldn't soak anything anytime between Monday through Friday, 8 am to 5 pm unless it is a holiday.
I generally have a box of everything up to 2.00 in delavan solids and hollows. I also have a few w's.
Whatever it takes to get the customer safely through the weekend or night without.

I agree with you 100% and it would be a last resort to soak a nozzle. The spin-on oil filter with vacuum gauge could pretty much tell the OP what is wrong as well.

Honestly, in that pinch, swap a strainer off of any new nozzle. If the nozzle is plugged, it will start and run fine. Until it too clogs up. There is absolutely no way you can diagnose a plugged strainer with a fuel pressure gauge because the pressure before and at the strainer will be the pump set pressure, but the actual pressure at the nozzle orifice can be much lower. The only way to prove if it is the nozzle and NOT the strainer is to change the nozzle strainer. If it still doesn't spray right, then change the whole nozzle. I had a bucket of odd sixed nozzles without strainers that I had robbed strainers for good nozzles with plugged strainers. They only came from burners with wool sock canister filters. Before I wised up, and had burners running like a 3 legged dog, a month after a thorough cleaning, because the crappy filter was letting crud by, you think I am going to give away a brand new nozzle for free? When the only thing wrong is a plugged nozzle?

The dead give away for crappy filters is a dirty pump strainer. Once you switch to Spin-On's, you will never see another dirty pump strainer. EVER. Even if you put one of those beloved "Sludge Pots" at the tank that some love so much so they can look at the grunge.

Hint: If you use two SPin-On's,, and you change the one at the tank, if you pour out the oil, you can still see if there was any sludge. It's there in the bottom of the can. It just didn't pass through the filter element.

rhowe33

I would also check for air in the supply oil line.

icesailor

A Tigerloop resolves all excessive air leaks.

RobG

Has the service tech ever cleaned the sections or performed a combustion analyses? Is this a thirty minute service?

billtwocase

Vacuum testing to find air leaks would be great.

icesailor

billtwocase said:

Vacuum testing to find air leaks would be great.

How many no-heat calls have you been on and actually found a vacuum leak that was causing a burner to go off on safety?

I once found a vacuum leak in the late 1960's there some landscaper hit a copper root with a shovel on a 2 pipe system. I found the leak, switched the line and all was well until years later, they abandoned the UST and steam boiler.

I only found them on 2 pipe systems with high suction lifts on UST's and the fuel pump seal was sucking air but not leaking.

Or, oversized supply lines to overhead equipment and the fuel pump was creating too much vacuum on the lines, causing the oil to "vacuum boil" and make gas/air.

Tigerloops resolve all these issues in Europe and the USA.

"First, change the filter".

billtwocase

You know this land of flood plain Ice, you've been here. Many a tank cabled down in a crawl space, heating unit in a garage, or room above the tank, so no gravity feed. I do not like 2 pipe systems. Not needed if everything is right. A bad pump cover gasket, bad check in fuel pump, bad filter gaskets, fireomatic with a worn stem seal, bad flare, threaded nipples not sealed and tightened, and the list can go on. Even Tigerloops will eventually fail to solve an issue. I would always rather try to pinpoint the problem, and that's why I have gauges. This is one thing that we have never agreed on Ice, but I respect you. I see a lot of those installed when the problem was actually staring someone right in the face, and not including you in that. I just see them as another potential oil leak, and I hate oil leaks with a passion. Makes oil look bad and unsafe

icesailor

You understand the proper use of a vacuum or pressure gauge. You and I used them. Many others don't. The only oil systems I ever saw that had gauge ports put in at the installation were ones with Garber Spin-Ons, because they come with a vacuum gauge port already installed on the filter housing.

Old Garber gauges were marked off in head of feet or inches. Many were clueless what the marks meant or could figure out what they meant. So, they just painted green, yellow and red zones on the gauges. Idiot proof.

If you have a Tigerloop, and you fire off a burner, and you see foam in the cap, you have a leak. Many "Tech's" wouldn't notice the foam, and if they wouldn't notice the foam, they certainly wouldn't know what it means.

So, when we had to eliminate unprotected under floor oil lines, how did you fix it? A two pipe system so it would prime? One line overhead and suck the oil around with the bleed screw(which leads to a host of other problems)?

Or did you try a Tigerloop, which because it is a two pipe system, puts high suction on the single line that we ran overhead and into the tank to run the oil? The Tigerloop is by far, the better way. And all those Government Required applications in Europe can't be wrong. Is it Norway where you absolutely can not connect a oil tank to a burner without one? They must be on to something. I figured out what it is. It works a whole lot better and is far more flexible than any other thing out there.

Connect a burner with single line suction to a 5 gallon fuel container. Keep it filled. It will run for as long as you keep it filled. Connect the single line to a Roth type tank, beside the burner with the single oil line. Prime it. It will run all day until at night, the burner is off for a while. It will loose its prime and lock out. Because of the crappy fitting on the top of the tank that will suck air and break the syphon/vacuum. Put a Tigerloop on the burner and connect the same line to the Tigerloop, it will never go out.

billtwocase

That is why I don't use the Roth suction line. No one should be using those. I use a 4 foot long 3/8 black nipple as a chase to run a bare copper line down to 3" off the bottom thru a double tap bushing, 3/8 IPS ball valve, inline fireomatic, all flare fittings, mount the filter on the burner. No problems for me Ice. This has to be done on all outside tanks, Roth or not-code. I don't have loss of prime issues with one line, and no tigerloop. I guess I am just lucky?

billtwocase

To also the answer the above, I have been on many no heat calls due to air leaks Ice. Usually it would be after a servicing, and either cracked gasket, supply line that was overtightened, gasket on pump not perfectly seated with a small piece of gasket left behind, and so on. We have a development that was built mainly for serviceman after WW2. We are obviously next to Otis here. They all had 1 line underground tanks-regular 275's, compression fittings, slab houses, Lennox wam air furnaces. We have many developments just like that one from the early 70's that had buried tanks when oil was rationed. Yes, I have troubleshot and repaired a many fuel supply problem

icesailor

Were they buried flat 275 gallon indoor tanks? I've seen those.

I never saw a 2-pipe UST tank connection I liked. You at least have sense enough to look for gaskets that weren't completely removed. How many F4B's did I see with one gasket sticking to the housing, and another added on because the Schmook didn't have sense enough to remove the old one. If your going to change a pump strainer, if you're not going to carefully get the old one off, and slap a new one on (if the Schmook even puts the new gasket on), he might just as well leave the old one on as leave 1/2 the old one there still.

If you REALLY want clean oil at the pump, use two Spin-On's, one as the oil enters the Tigerloop, the other filter at the pump. St that the filter at the pump has continuous circulation of cleaner oil oil.

billtwocase

Do you remember the early 70 series cover gaskets that after scraping the top portion, you had to be careful not to plug the pressure port with gasket fragments? Fortunately all these new gaskets come off in one piece, but still best to make sure. You have paid your dues Ice, and when I think of filtration, you will always come to mind.

icesailor

Thanks.

No one believed me about filtration until they tried it. Hands on experience is a very good teacher.