Venting a Richardson system

papnap

After some study I've come to understand that I have a Richardson style steam system. There are 11 radiators. 8 are column type steam rads with Richardson elbow type traps and 3 are tube type rads with P style traps. The main and the return are both plumbed as a full circle like Dan described in his article "How they piped coal-fired steam systems." The system is driven by a 10 year old Crown boiler rated at 142000 BTU input.

I've replaced a Dole 1A vent that was the sole air release with 3 Gorton #2 vents. One is on the dry return above where it drops to join the boiler feed. Two are on the main above where where the equalizer drops to the boiler feed. The system is working *much* better with the new vents.

Question 1:
Since installing the 2 Gortons on the steam main the vent on the return seems to never get hot, and never close. Do I really need a thermostatic vent on the return, or would a simple opening suffice? Perhaps the extra Gorton would be more useful on the steam main.

Question 2:
Dan suggests putting vents along the main in addition to the end on this type of system. I'm tempted to try this since the two wings of my main are uneven. The main going north from the header is longer and has 7 rads. going south there are 4 rads. I'm weighing the benefit of another vent on the north side vs the plumbing challenge of the extra tapping. Currently the main fills in about 3 minutes from the time steam enters the cold main until it's passed the last rad riser.

Question 3:
The Dead Men installed some type of vent/valve/tank where the dry return descends to the boiler feed. Its round and about 10 inches wide and 10 inches tall labeled "Trane patented number 1 400 feet". Was this a vacuum vent or worse a mercury pot type vent? I can post pics later.

KC_Jones

@vaporvac Do they have a Trane system? Does that nomenclature sound familiar? To the OP if you have a device marked Trane I would think you have a Trane system, but the person I tagged might be able to help with that as they have an old Trane vapor system. And yes pics are always good!

Steamhead

You want all your venting at the ends of the steam mains. If one main is longer than the other, add more venting to make the steam reach the ends of both mains at about the same time.

The Trane device might be a Direct Return Trap. Does it have a large pipe coming out of the bottom and two smaller pipes that go to the steam main and dry return?

vaporvac

A picture is worth a thousand words. Could you post one of this device and also of the two different rad types as well as the places of the original and replacement vents? The boiler piping would also be good to see. Does your system work off a vaporstat? My vacuum system only has one vent coming out of the "air eliminator" and had a Vstat original to the system.

JStar

Does the device look like this:


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Do you have anything like this on the return mains:

papnap

I don't have anything like the pictured devices. I've added pictures of the Trane device, the near boiler piping and a couple of radiators.

The previous air vent was attached to the nipple coming out of the top of the Trane device. The steam main makes a complete circle of the basement. Steam enters the west side, and the east side of the loop has a line that descends to the boiler feed. There appears to be a check valve between the condensate return and the return/equalization pipe from the steam main. I replaced an el with a tee where the steam pipe descends to the boiler feed and added 2 Gorton #2 vents.

The system has a broken pressure gauge and a pressuretrol which is currently set for 3psi.

Observing the system in action the Trane device seems to be functioning as a glorified tee. Air flows freely in and out of the top nipple, and presumably condensate is flowing through. Perhaps it's guts were removed by a previous owner?

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/14/39993daaea15825e0119e55b89cb92.jpg" />

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/86/57c7bd0e3b7edcc876c40cc738f94e.jpg" />

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/d3/ccb8ca93db4707f6127689855aeb18.jpg" />

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/bc/e32727be1b4732530560339b652c4d.jpg" />

<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/FileUpload/6d/db6bb6446674542335fda9570b2ace.jpg" />

Steamhead

That's an early Trane air trap. There's probably a float in there that can close if the water rises that far, keeping water from spilling out the vent.

The return fittings on the tube-type rads look like O-E elbows, which do basically the same thing as the Richardson ones.

With those Gortons, your system should heat quickly and evenly.

vaporvac

That looks really similar to my vaporvacuum system, with the exception of the rad elbows. I suspect it was at one time and could be easily converted back, although I'm not sure the effect of the elbows. Does your system still drop into a vacuum after heating up? Btw, I'm pretty sure the device Jstar posted is a later version of your air eliminator. Jstar and Steamhead work on these systems often, so they would know.

papnap

Steamhead: The system does heat pretty well now. Gone are the days when the basement got hotter as the weather got colder.

You and others on this board have been a great help.

papnap

Vaporvac:
This almost certainly was a vacuum system in the coal fired past, and converting it back is surely possible. Addition of the Gorton vents has brought it up to good enough though. So it becomes a question of whether I indulge my urge to tinker or move on to other projects.
I know which my wife would prefer ;-)

RobG

If it works well now, wait until spring to tinker.