Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

How hot should a Taco 007 circulator get?

Options
R2.0
R2.0 Member Posts: 99
Something I noticed with the circulator that came with my new boiler is that the motor casing runs hot. VERY hot, as in hotter than the piping. Previously I always dealt with 3 piece circulatory, so I really don't know if this is normal.

Comments

  • Bob Bona_4
    Bob Bona_4 Member Posts: 2,083
    Options
    Good question for Taco tech. They have a 240 degree max on the typical wet rotor models.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    edited December 2014
    Options
    They can get toasty. Comparative experience comes in to play with many of us. If there are 5-007's on a manifold, and one zone isn't working, the hottest 007 is usually not working and needs replacing. On seasonal turn-on's, a hot 007 can often be resolved with a few judicious whacks with a pair of pliers on the motor body. Sometimes, I've had to beat the snots out of them to get them unstuck. But like the Eveready Bunny, they can tale a licking/beating and keep on ticking.

    If it is just hot, and you're worried, invest in a infra red heat gun thermometer. See how hot it actually is. Post it back. Someone from Taco is always reading here. They will tell us what is acceptable or not.

    You fill find a multitude of uses for the Infra-Red thermometer. My wife had her other knee replaced. I used it to check the temperature of any swelling. We use it on horses all the time. Also handy for locating heat loss/heat gain in your house.
  • R2.0
    R2.0 Member Posts: 99
    Options
    I bought a cheap infrared gun from Harbor freight, but I don't really trust it - for instance the readings are patently wrong when shooting bare copper tubing. Before I invest in another gun I will likely buy a couple of thermocouple probes - I have a cheap reader I used for my wood stove and I know it's accurate.

    I don't think it's locked, as I am getting circulation. But I do know it was in storage for a good long while before I installed it. I also need to check for undervoltage - I was pretty careful with the wiring, but one bad wire nut could do it.
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,231
    Options
    @R2.0‌ infrared readings depend largely on emissivity of the surface of what you're reading. Your thermometer is working the only way it can which is identical to my $3,000 infrared imaging camera. If you want accurate readings of copper pipes, simply wrap something thin and dull around it, like that blue gaffers' tape (not ideal, but often available) or similar.

    Also, I called Taco for an issue once before about the temperature of the motor and they told me the 127° reading I was getting was perfectly normal and could be higher.

    Hope that helps.

    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,266
    Options
    It's a wet rotor circ? Should run about the same as the temperature of the fluid flowing thru it. Unless it's deadheaded
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Options
    "" I bought a cheap infrared gun from Harbor freight, but I don't really trust it - for instance the readings are patently wrong when shooting bare copper tubing. Before I invest in another gun I will likely buy a couple of thermocouple probes - I have a cheap reader I used for my wood stove and I know it's accurate. ""

    They're accurate enough for TSA to check your temperature for Ebola and deny you entrance in to the USA.

    The more you use them, the more you become aware of the vagaries of them. Highly reflective surfaces throw them off. Put a piece of flat black tape on a piece of shiny copper tube. You'll get a different reading on the tape.
  • R2.0
    R2.0 Member Posts: 99
    Options
    JohnNY said:

    @R2.0‌ infrared readings depend largely on emissivity of the surface of what you're reading. Your thermometer is working the only way it can which is identical to my $3,000 infrared imaging camera. If you want accurate readings of copper pipes, simply wrap something thin and dull around it, like that blue gaffers' tape (not ideal, but often available) or similar.

    I believe it's also the curved surface. I will shoot the pipe and get 60F - that's less than room temp. Move the target to the flats on a copper fitting, bang - 120F on the dodt (this was downstream of the mixing valve.
    JohnNY said:

    Also, I called Taco for an issue once before about the temperature of the motor and they told me the 127° reading I was getting was perfectly normal and could be higher.

    Hope that helps.

    It's substantially more warm.
    hot rod said:


    It's a wet rotor circ? Should run about the same as the temperature of the fluid flowing thru it. Unless it's deadheaded

    That's what I assumed, but it's much higher.
  • R2.0
    R2.0 Member Posts: 99
    Options
    icesailor said:

    "They're accurate enough for TSA to check your temperature for Ebola and deny you entrance in to the USA.

    Now, why doesn't that increase my confidence level? :|
  • jorale15
    jorale15 Member Posts: 2
    Options
    The 007 draws about .7 amps while operating, with a voltage of 120 volts , the watts used by the pump will be around 84 watts. Now this is a water lubricated cartridge and some of the motor winding temperatures will be drawn away by the system water, but the motor will still be uncomfortable to try to hold, you can compare it to a 75 watt light bulb. This a normal operating temperature for the 007, The 007 is rated for 230°F system water. This pump is UL listed.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Options
    Fractional horsepower PSC motors are only about 50% efficient. Translation: half of the ~81 Watts consumed by a 007 goes to generate heat. 40 Watts may not sound like much, but when concentrated in a small space, it can easily burn you (think soldering iron.) If a conventional wet rotor circulator is not flowing much water, it will get quite hot.

    I don't trust even my Fluke 568 for absolute temperature measurements without calibrating the emissivity by comparing with a submerged thermocouple. I do trust it for relative measurements on consistent substrates (black electrical tape as mentioned above) -- plenty good enough for checking ΔT and sniffing out problems.
  • R2.0
    R2.0 Member Posts: 99
    Options
    Ok, that's good to know. I still think I have a flow issue somewhere, but it doesn't sound like I'll burn up a pump before I find it.
  • Tom_133
    Tom_133 Member Posts: 888
    Options
    Amp the pump, if its at or under .71 amps you are ok if it's over +.1 or so the pump is bad or is on its way out.

    Amp by using an amp probe wrapping it around one of the power wires
    Tom
    Montpelier Vt
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,479
    Options
    If your using the old style analog amprobe wrap several turns around the jaws. You will probably have to break a connection and temporarily add a length of wire.

    If you wrap 15 turns it will turn the 15a scale into a 1a scale.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • Steve Thompson (Taco)
    Options
    All wet rotor can run hotter than the fluid - but it depends on the fluid temp, ambient temp around the circ and motor amp draw. About 70% of the heat created by the motor is dissipated to the system (funny it doesn't count as part of the overall system efficiency) and about 30% is dissipated to the air around the circ.

    Even three piece circ motors run hot - even hotter as the motor manufacturers reduce the amount of windings to increase the motor efficiency.
  • R2.0
    R2.0 Member Posts: 99
    Options
    BobC said:

    If your using the old style analog amprobe wrap several turns around the jaws. You will probably have to break a connection and temporarily add a length of wire.

    If you wrap 15 turns it will turn the 15a scale into a 1a scale.

    Bob

    I have a Fluke clamp meter that a Telco service tech left on my AC condenser a decade ago. Sounds like it's time to teach Monkeyboy how to use it.