Hissing and Spitting Air Valves

ChrisJ

That boiler also has a Cycleguard LWCO which shuts the burner down something like every 15 minutes for no reason.

KC_Jones

Good catch Chris totally missed that! That looks like a Burnham. Do they come with that from factory?

ChrisJ

KC_Jones said:

Good catch Chris totally missed that! That looks like a Burnham. Do they come with that from factory?

Unfortunately, yes.

nicholas bonham-carter

It looks like the first thing to do would be to change the LWCO to one which does not have that annoying, and potentially damaging feature-Safguard, maybe?-- NBC

Eagle1017

The thermostat is a RTH7500D. Where are the LWCO settings? Do I take the black cover off? I'm pretty certain it isn't set that low because the boiler has stayed on for time periods much longer than 15 minutes. Also, if I adjust the honeywell to limit cycles per hour then the upstairs where the tenants live will get too cold. Unfortunately for my heating bill here is how I'm currently operating it - during the day I have set at 72 degrees and have windows slightly open on my floor. The system cycles on a few times and hour and the radiators stay warm (the pipes in basement stay pretty hot). The thermostat is surprisingly sensitive to the heat coming on - the main line is uninsulated and runs directly below the floor where the thermostat is so I'm wondering if that is the culprit. In the morning I have it set to increase to 73. That keep the house and particularly the upstairs warm enough. My issues of noise from radiators and steam hammer (when the system cycles off) are all still happening - the leaking from the radiator has not happened in last 36 hours. I think keeping the heat at 72 - 73 just keeps the pipes warm/thermostat at high temp so the boiler never runs for more than 20 minutes - if I did I suspect that the last section of that radiator would get hot and all the pressure might push water out again. I raised the entire radiator and gave it a good amount of pitch. I plan on installing the Gorton #2's on the mains today/tomorrow, I turned down the pressure on the pressuretrol and am looking into how to skim the boiler.

Mark N

The manual for your thermostat is available on line on the Honeywell website. You need to set it up correctly. The 1cph setting selects the proper algorithm for the anticipator function for the type of heat you have. You can install smaller rad vents downstairs to get better heat distribution upstairs. A steam boiler will not cycle on and off multiple times per hour on the thermostat if it is properly programmed. Your boiler is equipped with a Cyclegard LWCO. These come from the factory to turn off the boiler to check the water level every 10 or 20 minutes not sure which. You need to insulate all the basement piping. Otherwise it just acts as a radiator. The heat ends up in your basement not your upstairs.

Mark N

ChrisJ watch the video on the Cyclegard on the Hydrolevel Website. They give their reason for the intermittent water level check. Whether or not you agree with it is up to. Your boiler could be foaming and you wouldn't know it unless you had that convenient window where a tankless coil would go.

KC_Jones

By what you are describing you have imbalance in the system. As has been said you need to skim that boiler, without the skim the rest of the system tuning will be difficult. After getting it skimmed and adding those main vents you can then tackle the radiator venting. If the upstairs needs to be warmer you could possibly vent the upstairs fast enough and your floor slow enough to actually make the upstairs warmer than the set point on the thermostat downstairs. With your windows open you are basically throwing money out that open window. You have adjustable vents so you could turn yours down and the upstairs get turned up to vent more quickly. Once you get all of this done, then and only then would I worry about the hammering. It is possible once you get all of the items complete as suggested the hammer could go away. Since you haven't skimmed you are almost certainly surging which is probably producing wet steam which could be the cause of the hammering. Just because you hear hammering at a radiator does not mean the fix is at the radiator.

nicholas bonham-carter

Remember that one Gorton 2 is good for 20 feet of 2 inch pipe, and that you appear to have 2 mains, so be prepared to put more on.
The water in your sight glass seems pretty dirty, so skimming will calm down the waterline troubles you are having.--NBC

ChrisJ

Mark N said:

ChrisJ watch the video on the Cyclegard on the Hydrolevel Website. They give their reason for the intermittent water level check. Whether or not you agree with it is up to. Your boiler could be foaming and you wouldn't know it unless you had that convenient window where a tankless coil would go.

Hi Mark,
Yep, I watched the video years ago.
I guess my opinion is it's up to the owner of the boiler to ensure good water quality.

Mark N

Chris when you get a chance give an update as to how your Eco-Steam controller is working. What were you trying accomplish with it and is it meeting those goals.

Eagle1017

I've attached 4 new pictures of the boiler below. I don't see a skim port. With out that how do I skim?

BobC

In the Boiler 4 pic there is a knockout to the left of the pressure relief valve. Under that knockout is a plug that can be removed so you can put in a nipple and full port valve (with a threaded plug for safety) so you can skim the boiler.

This pic shows the setup on my Smith boiler, note the port on the smith is on the front not the back of the boiler.

Bob

David Nadle

There's a 1" plug, I think, on the same side with the pressure relief valve, but you don't seem to have a knockout in the jacket.

EDIT -- I zoomed the picture and now I think I see the knockout. Since the boiler is so new it shouldn't be too hard to get that plug out and install a nipple and cap.

Eagle1017

Thanks David and BobC! Stupid question - how do I knockout the knockout? Then I put in a valve (see attached picture) and skim?

Mark N

Its a plug that you need to get out. It is underneath the jacket. If you've never done this before I recommend bringing back the installer to do it. Also, you can remove the elbow on the pressuretrol tapping install a tee and skim from there.

David Nadle

A valve is not necessary. I would just add a nipple a few inches long and either a cap or an elbow facing down and a plug. Once you get the boiler clean you'll rarely need to open the skim port. This would be a quick job for the original installer.

ChrisJ

I feel the easiest way is to remove the boiler jacket. This will make removing the knockout easier and the plug will be a piece of cake.

I also recommend a cap or a coupler + plug. I had a valve fail and just did away with it.

Eagle1017

David, ChrisJ and Mark - See attached picture. Is that what you were expecting to see behind knockout? Working on getting the jacket off so I can get to it. When I remove the plug will steam/hot water come out? It looks like it is above the water line currently.

KC_Jones

Before you remove the plug make sure the boiler is off. Make sure it has been off for a little while so there isn't any steam. This is for safety and to give some time for the water to settle down inside the boiler. That port should be above the water line so water shouldn't be a problem, just make sure no steam. Also before you remove it make sure you have all the necessary materials on hand, pipe, fittings, etc. Remember think of skimming in terms of hours not gallons. I think it was mentioned already you skim very slowly for a long time. I did about 12-14 hours of skimming on mine over the course of 4 days. I didn't want the heat off for too long on any single skim. Instead of removing the jacket I have used 12 point sockets on those square plugs before. If it works you are in business if it doesn't you just fall back on removing the jacket and using a pipe wrench.

Eagle1017

Ok thanks KC_Jones! I may wait until tomorrow to start because it will be warmer. Boiler is ok with jacket off for a few days correct? When I have the skim set up do I just hold the manual button of the automatic water feeder down to raise the level periodically? Not sure I have a good manual valve I can partially open.

KC_Jones

Definitely DO NOT hold the manual feed button. There are isolation valves on the feeder. Close those and then use the manual feed valve. It looks like you have 2 valves you could use (as I do) to help throttle the flow down slow enough. The first valve and the one between the isolation valves for the water feeder. Shut both of those almost all the way down and just let a trickle of water flow into the boiler. You can feed the water faster initially until you get it close to the skim port. I actually measured from the floor to my skim port then put a mark on my sight glass so I knew when I was getting close. Once you are close then close the valves way down. It should take a good 2 hours to fill a 5 gallon bucket if you are going slow enough. You need a lot of patience for this procedure, but once you get it done and see the results you will realize it was very worth while.

KC_Jones

Oh why would you need to leave the jacket off? once you get your skim pipe installed it can stay in permanently with a cap on it. I would get the pipe installed then put the jacket back together, then do my skimming.

Eagle1017

Ok thanks. I have the jacket off now while I go to get the valve. Just wanted to make sure it was safe for unit to run without the jacket on.

David Nadle

I expected what Burnham calls the "surface blow-off" tapping to be 1", not 1 1/4". Check your install manual and make sure you have the right tapping.

Eagle1017

David & KC_Jones - The plug says 1 1/4 on it so I got a 1 1/4 nipple that is 8 inches long. I also bought a cap for it. The problem is I can't get the existing plug out of there. See picture. I'm trying to remove the plug that is closest to top and front of boiler - that is the plug that is behind the knockout that is at an even height as the pressure release. I just tried like hell with a wrench for the last hour - no luck. Am I trying to remove the right plug? See attached picture.

David Nadle

I think you have the right tapping but the wrong wrench. You need more leverage. A longer wrench or a cheater pipe over the handle.

KC_Jones

How big of a wrench are you using? I have 18" wrenches that I then put a 3' cheater pipe on. Leverage is your friend. I also have 3' pipe wrenches, but those are more for bigger fittings. Since that boiler is new it should come out fairly easy.