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Main venting + f & t's?

Still working out the issues about my near boiler piping from an earlier thread but I wanted to ask another question about main vents. I have (two-pipe) 6 zones with an f & t trap at the end of each main (except for one) which return to the feed tank. Does my type of system need extra venting besides f & t traps? On average these mains (from the boiler to the f & t's) are about 90ft and the return lines to the feed tank are 30ft. I'm having my f & t's replaced soon, but here's a picture of the one I wasn't sure about. Since it's at the end of the line, I assume its a trap of some sort. Just thought I'd share it. Many thanks to you guys for all your advice. I've really learned a lot here!

Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,338
    That's a new one on me! Any name on it?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • dee davis
    dee davis Member Posts: 24
    Hi Steamhead, The top of the dome says Empire on it.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,338
    edited November 2014
    Found it- it was made by the American District Steam Co., a.k.a. "ADSCO":

    http://books.google.com/books?id=DeZQAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=empire+steam+trap&source=bl&ots=tAp__HeFYT&sig=hz3gEVLVp7Keu5iPSGTq9G8NX50&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HQxyVNsag5U2_dWAoA0&ved=0CC0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=empire steam trap&f=false

    This looks like a float trap with a built-in air vent. You could do the same thing with a standard F&T trap, by adding an air vent to the outlet connection. This trap is a museum piece- please don't scrap it!

    You may also need to increase the air venting beyond what an F&T will pass. You can do this by adding a tee before the trap inlet and installing one or more Gorton #2 vents there. What pipe sizes are your 90-foot steam mains?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • dee davis
    dee davis Member Posts: 24
    Nice! That's some pretty quick sleuthing! So that's a publication from 1922. I guess that trap has been down there a while. When I replace this trap should I add a vent to it or should I put some Gorton's somewhere?
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,338
    Depends on how much air we have to vent. That's why I asked what pipe size your mains are. When we know the diameter as well as the length, we can calculate how much air is in them, and decide how best to vent them.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • dee davis
    dee davis Member Posts: 24
    Sorry Steamhead. I didn't see the edited version of your previous reply. 4 of my mains are 1 1/2 inch and the other two are 3/4 inch. I won't scrap that trap. If you ever find yourself in Indianapolis, that Empire trap is yours!
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,338
    Those sound kind of small- can you post some pics and maybe a diagram of how they go together? Once in a while we do see 1-1/2" steam mains but only in very small houses. The 3/4" is probably just a "drip" to dispose of condensate in the main, thru a trap.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • dee davis
    dee davis Member Posts: 24
    Okay, I'll put a diagram together over the next couple days. Thanks, Steamhead : )
  • dee davis
    dee davis Member Posts: 24
    Here's a diagram of my system and some photos to go with it. Those mains really are 1-1/2" and two of them are 3/4". Only one of my mains is 2". All the returns from the f & t traps are 3/4".
  • dee davis
    dee davis Member Posts: 24
    missing a few photos. Here they are.
  • dee davis
    dee davis Member Posts: 24
    Just an update to my diagram and photos in this thread. I have since removed 1 bucket trap and 1 very old Empire Trap and replaced them both with Hoffman FT015H-3 traps. Still hoping someone could give me an idea of where I should put some vents on this system besides the one on the feed tank. I realize this might be a lot to ask since the diagram is pretty busy and it might be better to see in person. Which leads to my next question. Do any steam pros travel to do consultation only jobs? I'm nearly 100% sure there are none in Indiana. Oh, and I kept the Old Empire trap. Here's a better view of it.
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,625
    I think @Steamhead does consultation work, but not sure who else does.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
  • I am guessing there is a carbon rod in the tall housing on top, and its expansion and contraction from the hot steam operates the trap. old oven controls were similar, like the one on our Magic Chef, [c.1923].
    it appears adjustable as well.--NBC
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,338
    Oh boy- the piping manifold that feeds those zone valves is too small. It will have to be repiped.

    KC is right, I have been known to travel for consulting. But you should have a relationship with a company who at least knows how to work with black steel pipe and can follow directions.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,625
    Steamhead said:

    Oh boy- the piping manifold that feeds those zone valves is too small. It will have to be repiped.

    KC is right, I have been known to travel for consulting. But you should have a relationship with a company who at least knows how to work with black steel pipe and can follow directions.

    Would a more accurate description be "Willing to listen to directions"? In other words willing to admit they aren't the expert and willing to learn.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10202744301871904.1073741828.1330391881&type=1&l=c34ad6ee78
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