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Viessmann Gas 200-60 conversion from oil

wolfetonewolfetone Posts: 8Member
edited November 2014 in Gas Heating
Hi all

First post here so hi!

Ok so the story is I buy a 3,200 sq foot home in New England with oil. Previous owner spends $5700 per year on oil.

The oil is a 1995 unit. I've just been using it for hot water and wanted to see a few months use to determine if it's a good investment to switch over to gas or geothermal.

After a few months it's costing $100 per month just for hot water alone for 2 people, which is outrageous as we are not heavy on HW. Previous gas bills for cooking and HW in an apartment was $25-40/month for the same period in previous place.

Geothermal appears to be costing ....a lot..., doesn't appear to be a good investment.

So gas it seems, as I also want it for cooking. We have gas available on the street. So I'm planning for next April.

I want a good system that is very neat, well engineered and extremely efficient and reliable and to last a long time.

I got a quote for the Viessmann 200-60. I would like to get it with the outdoor reset and sensor and linked to my phone.

Radiators are the old forced hot water cast irons. Hot water storage is a superstor double SS lined relatively new. Despite this the oil per month is $100 for HW only. Plumber believes it was set up incorrectly by the oil company that installed it to burn more oil.

Option 1.
Replumb existing oil boiler the way it should have been set up originally. Costs 1/5th of oil to gas conversion

Option 2:
Install gas conversion with a Viessmann 200-60.


Any suggestions?

Are Viessmann as good as they cost?

How close to the electric panel can a gas boiler be placed?

Comments

  • SteamheadSteamhead Posts: 13,288Member
    We do NOT discuss pricing on this forum.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • wolfetonewolfetone Posts: 8Member
    It was my first post. Price removed.
  • psb75psb75 Posts: 130Member
    "I want a good system that is very neat, well engineered and extremely efficient and reliable and to last a long time."

    This is a pretty good description of Viessmann systems.
  • Robert O'BrienRobert O'Brien Posts: 3,146Member
    A 60Kwh boiler in a 3200 sq/ft house that uses $5700/year in oil? I can tell you that is way,way oversized!
    To learn more about this professional, click here to visit their ad in Find A Contractor.
  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 7,265Member
    edited November 2014
    "" Plumber believes it was set up incorrectly by the oil company that installed it to burn more oil. ""

    "Plumber" doesn't know what the E he is talking about. Don't listen to anything he says.

    Two people must use a lot of hot water to use that amount of hot water per month. There's a lot more to this story. What kind of boiler? What are the settings? How big is the SuperStor? What are the temperature settings? What are the boiler temperature settings? Is it cold start? What is the High Limit of the boiler? Is the house a 3200 Sq. Ft. uninsulated barn with walls of windows and cathedral ceiling roofs with multitudes of recessed can lights? Soffit Vents to increase heat loss through infiltration?

    $5700 per year for oil at $4.00 per gallon comes to 1425 gallons per year. That's a lot of Wall Street Vigorish.

    Oil prices are going down while gas prices are going up. Now that they are getting the gas compression facilities up and running, they are sending US LNG to Europe to fill the void left by Putin's overcharging Europe for cheap Russian Siberian gas.

    The Golden Rule. He who owns the Gold, makes the rules.

    Oil and Gas are Gold. The owners of oil make the rules.

    That Urban Legend of "Oil Companies Set up oil burners to burn more oil and make them money" is just something that the Wall Street Crime Syndicate fabricated to get people to switch from oil to gas. Most oil servicing is done by private, individual oil burner technicians who have little or no financial ties to any oil company. Why do you think that most oil companies don't do their own service for any customers any more? It affects their bottom line.

    Too many people equate "efficiency" with saving money.

    If you don't address the underlying problems, you will just spend the same with less.


  • wolfetonewolfetone Posts: 8Member
    The plumber may be wrong but I'm willing to believe him over the oil company that delivered the oil, installed the boiler, and serviced the boiler and hooked it up wrong. I actually had my suspicions of them and they billed me for 175 gallons when they actually only delivered 106 gallons. This was verified by a second oil company and my own calculations.

    Anyways, the oil boiler has not come on for the heating whatsoever in the $100 per month calculation for hot water. That $100 was for hot water only.
    The two adults in the home do NOT use a ton of hot water, in fact we are pretty careful with it. Previous HW bills per month were only $25-40 in previous home with a gas boiler.

    I don't believe the home to be in insulated and seems to hold the heat well, not saying it's like a new build but it's definitely not an u insulated barn. Ceiling heights are 10 feet on the 1st floor and 8 feet on the 2nd floor. The hot water tank is a Superstor double SS lined and a standard size. The water temp was reduced when we bought the home to below normal I didn't record the specific temp but I can but its the lowest comfortable temp and I've played w the settings

    The boiler is oil fired from 1995.

    Another option is to install a Viessmann oil burner. However with a zero percent interest loan for 7 urs to convert to gas and all the other mass save incentives that may not make as much economical sense as a gas conversion

    I hope that provides more info, I can get you more info on the boiler top/bottom temps, but we haven't used the boiler yet for heating the home.
  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 7,265Member
    When was the house built? 10" ceilings haven't been popular in the North/heating areas for years. Not so in Florida because of cooling, and hot ceilings from poorly insulated ceilings and attics.

    All oil dispensing equipment on trucks has to be certified by the local weights & measure person. They must be done at least once per year, When you purchase gasoline at a service station, there will be a sticker on each and every pump with the current unexpired sticker. If the sticker is not there, there is a heavy fine.

    Oil companies and Propane dealers have their product dispensing devices tested and inspected each year for accuracy. Not so for all those gas meters hanging on the side of buildings. They can be off for years and no one will be the wiser. The inspections are done by certified State or local inspectors

    There are no more "Mom & Pop" full service oil companies out there anymore. Just the cash sale, 100 gallon minimum dealers or the large regular price ones that bought out the smaller ones. The big ones are all owned by the Wall Street Crime Syndicate, where the profit is in just paying a driver as little as possible to drop off 150 gallons at a whack. They want individual service hired by the customers to keep things running. They really prefer that everyone switch to gas because there are no trucks for delivery, just buried pipes in the ground, and the price changes once per month.

    I think that you have a personal problem with oil. Oil is going down while NG is going up. There will be a shortage when they finish sending more and more overseas to Europe and China as LNG.

    If you don't address your real problems, you will just be wasting a cheaper (at the moment) fuel.

    When was this crib built? What year was it built? In 1960, they still were not insulating oil fired houses in New England. It wasn't until the "Energy Crisis" of 1973 that they started insulating to the maximum in new dwellings.
  • wolfetonewolfetone Posts: 8Member
    Just an update to all your questions

    Home built in 1895, had significant updates in the mid 80s, 90s and as recent as 7 years ago. I do believe it is insulated well, although im sure it could be better as right now, and since summer, I only use a wood stove to heat the entire 3,200 sq ft home and its fine even in 18F outside so im assuming thats not a major issue.

    Boiler details:
    Ultimate Plus Cast Iron Boiler
    Installed 1995
    High 175F and Low setting of 150.

    Beckett Burner

    Superstore 45 gallon
    Indirect water heater

    I am not "anti-oil" ive burned oil all my life!

    I do not use "excess hot water"

    And I do think it was plumbed wrong as the piping is 1 inch and the piping to the hot water heater should be 1.75

    Ceilings are 9.25 feet.



  • SWEISWEI Posts: 7,356Member


    2) Mod-con that can provide heat and hot water from a single device.

    Don't fall for the tiny mod-con that requires a separate, expensive, indirect to provide hot water and a mile of copper pipe. Get one that does it all. More cost for the purchase price. More efficiency down the road.

    Find me one that can deliver the 150-200k needed for tankless hot water and can efficiently modulate down to the 10k or so minimum rate required for a house with a 30k design day heat loss and I'll buy them by the pallet.
  • BobCBobC Posts: 5,001Member
    Maybe it's time to realize the tankless idea just isn't realistic without an external tank. Icesailor's buffer tank might be ideal for something like this.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • icesailoricesailor Posts: 7,265Member
    BobC said:

    Maybe it's time to realize the tankless idea just isn't realistic without an external tank. Icesailor's buffer tank might be ideal for something like this.

    Bob

    Trust me. If he has a oil boiler with an external tankless only with a 70A type tempering valve, the fuel savings will be quite noticeable.

    The house was built in 1895? Is it a balloon framed two story Victorian type house? Renovated a few times? People tend to spend on what they can see and enjoy. Aesthetics. And skimp on what they can't see, Insulation and weather stripping. Does it have a decent masonry (brick) foundation or a fieldstone/rubble foundation? People will renovate a kitchen and not take the wall board down to insulate behind the walls. Put in Velux roof windows, and complain about a cold kitchen.

    I assume you have an inside oil tank with the oil lines to the burner above the floor and NOT buried under the basement floor where it could be leaking. I hope you don't have a UST in the yard.

    I don't dispute what you believe about the oil company and the delivery, but if you go on filling the tank, you can't go by what any two or ten drivers drop off. Some stop the instant the whistle sounds starts to change in pitch, some a moment after the whistle completely stops. Then, there's the flow rate that an individual driver might set the pump flow at. Most any upright 275 gallon upright oil tank only gets filled from dead empty to full with 240 gallons of product or less. Because you need expansion room. If you use the same oil company for fuel, certain drivers have the same routes and become familiar with deliveries and the idiosyncrasies of customers tanks. The particular driver who usually filled that tank may not fill it past the whistle because he knows it will puke product out the vent and all over the side of the house. The later driver that filled the tank, may have overfilled it but lucked out with the oil puking on the side of the house. If the oil pukes on the ground, the oil company must legally clean it up. Which often requires a oil spill remediation company. That will cost far more than the little profit they might have made on your fuel delivery. Drivers are instructed to NOT overfill tanks. If your whistle doesn't work properly, most oil companies will refuse to deliver until YOU get it fixed. They might get it fixed for you, but YOU will pay for it.

    Many oil companies have customers on budget plans where you agree to pay a set amount every month for oil. In return, they keep the tank full with enough oil. You are supposed to always have oil. You get a delivery ticket whenever there is a delivery but you have no way of knowing how close the tank is to being overfilled.

    What was the previous owner paying for oil per gallon when they owned and used the house? What are YOU paying now? Last year (2013-2014 heating cycle), oil was much higher. I understand the price has dropped because so many have been switching to gas. Which in some areas has gone up substantially. You have Natural Gas available? Or will you be considering LPG/Propane? Which is higher in price than oil and has less heat content.

    When was the last time the boiler was thoroughly cleaned?

    A 3200 sq. ft. possibly poorly insulated New England home. Where in New England? It sounds like the boiler was a replacement in 1995. You have "old cast iron radiators. The house had a gravity coal system that has been converted to oil. The radiation was installed for a uninsulated 1895 house. Oil wasn't a consideration then. Circulated/pumped systems didn't really get going until years later. If you have big pipes running around the cellar, and smaller pipes around the 1995 boiler, the house is over radiated now. Probably way oversized for the application when new, and needs some serious TLC. A new boiler may be in order. But if you don't first address the underlying problems, you will be just wasting money in a more efficient way.

    Before you start ripping out boilers, find the most experienced insulation contractor you can find and have them come look. Just because someone claims that major improvements were done in the past, doesn't mean they were effective improvements. Improvements are in the eyes of the one writing the check to pay for them.
  • wolfetonewolfetone Posts: 8Member
    How much does it typically cost to install a Tekmar Outdoor Reset?
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