STEAM RADIATOR IDENTIFICATION TO MAKE CALCULATIONS..THURSDAY UPDATE..PHOTOS...

ww

this radiator is 3" wide X 45"long X 23" high...has 3 tubes in each section,looks like a slender type radiator.

1.I need to figure out the square feet of each section so I can figure out the total of the radiator.
2.I then would need to know how to figure out the cubic feet of air per square foot of EDR.

I don't see this information in the Balancing Steam Systems for this radiator..it may be there but not sure which this one is.

I want to figure out how much air is in the radiator. I was wondering if the above measurements can be used for this and if there was a formula that can be used to figure this all out if you didn't have to guide or it wasn't listed.

I do notice in some manufacturers descriptions of their products charts with the edr..but can't identify this one.
is there an id plate or id number somewhere on these radiators?

Steamhead

It's a small-tube radiator. If you have Dan's "E.D.R.", use the charts for the Burnham Slenderized rads.

BobC

In the LAOSH they list a three tube thin tube radiator that is 23" tall as 2 sq ft per section.

Bob

Pughie1

Bob,
Too much information, Steamhead is trying to sell one of Dan's
books.

ww

ok..what is LAOSH...where can i see that...and how do i convert to cubic feet of air per square foot of edr?

i saw some of those radiator company charts and did some calculations based on approximations and one was 2 sq ft per section.

vaporvac

Every darn radiator and Lost Art of Steam Heating...the latter is a must for every homeowner with steam.

KC_Jones

http://store.heatinghelp.com/Heating-Books-s/1829.htm?searching=Y&sort=7&cat=1829&show=10&page=4
You can buy the TLAOSH as a paper book or an ebook. The EDR book and the venting guide are also in the store. I don't have the EDR book, but do have the others and they are great highly recommended!

Steamhead

jpughe@roadrunner.com said:

Bob,
Too much information, Steamhead is trying to sell one of Dan's
books.

I cited "E.D.R." because it's the best radiator reference out there. Period.

R2.0

Heating Museum

Replacement Boiler Sizing Chart

You'll lose at least a day in the Museum.

KC_Jones

jpughe@roadrunner.com said:

Bob,
Too much information, Steamhead is trying to sell one of Dan's
books.

People are referred to books on this site all the time, I have done it many times. With all the free information and help that is available I don't think telling people to just buy a book is a big deal. In addition as Steamhead said these books are the definitive reference for steam. So if you consider it trying to sell books, even if that's what it is I don't see anything wrong with that.

vaporvac

I actually thought he was just trying to make a joke (which evidently fell flat). Maybe a smiley face was in order.

KC_Jones

If that is the case...I apologize. Sarcasm doesn't translate well on the net unless it is made obvious.

Pughie1

KC - Vaporvac is correct, just my sick humor I guess. I have all of Dan's books, they are full of valuable info, wouldn't be without them.
-
"Pughie"

KC_Jones

LOL no worries! I apologize for coming at you unnecessarily. Jokes and sarcasm are tough online...as vaporvac said add a smiley face!

ww

ok..thanks everyone..and R2.0 for those charts and links..great stuff....here are some photos of radiators...big ones are arco american radiator 3 tube. and small ones burnham 4 tube..
you can read the names on the side of the radiators if you enlarge them.

GOOD NEWS..after going thru a number of mockup calculations using various square feet per section...and going over the drawings and vent charts in BALANCING STEAM SYSTEMS USING A VENT CHART...

all the radiators got hot and heated the house no problem...so all this calculating paid off...previous methods involving charts showing what number vents to use didn't work as well as this..i used maid o mist c and d vents.

I still want to know where the figure CUBIC FEET OF AIR PER SQUARE FOOT OF EDR comes from. If anyone knows please let me know. Thanks

nicholas bonham-carter

EDR is measured in square feet of radiation-a measure of a radiators capacity to radiate heat, or of a boiler to supply that amount of heat to the radiators.
I think the cubic feet measurement to which you refer is that of the amount of air from the boiler, pipes, and radiators which has to be let out by the vents before the steam can come in.--NBC

ww

thanks for the input..but in this case that's not what i mean.

Balancing Steam Systems Using a Vent Chart has a section with a number you multiply the square feet of the radiator by to get the cubic feet of air per square foot of edr...i want to know how to figure that out.

I did all the calculations based on what I thought would work and to tell you the truth i ran all the numbers high and low...and they would have all needed a c or d vent so it really doesn't matter..but i am just curious on this one. thanks

take a look at that booklet i refer to and you'll see what i mean if you have it.

Abracadabra

ww said:

thanks for the input..but in this case that's not what i mean.

Balancing Steam Systems Using a Vent Chart has a section with a number you multiply the square feet of the radiator by to get the cubic feet of air per square foot of edr...i want to know how to figure that out.

I did all the calculations based on what I thought would work and to tell you the truth i ran all the numbers high and low...and they would have all needed a c or d vent so it really doesn't matter..but i am just curious on this one. thanks

take a look at that booklet i refer to and you'll see what i mean if you have it.

wondering if you have a different version than I have. I don't see anything about getting cubic feet of air per square foot of EDR. What page are you looking at?

KC_Jones

It's on page 14 of the balancing steam book. Just below the cubic foot numbers for pipe.

nicholas bonham-carter

Just vent the mains, with Gorton 2's, until the resistance to flow is as low as you can get (1-2 ounces back-pressure), during the initial steaming phase.
Put slower radiator vents on like Hoffman 40's, or 1-A's, and all the mains will fill first, and then the steam will travel up to the rads simultaneously.--NBC

ww

thank you kc jones...you see what i am referring to here. maybe you can figure that one out?

ok..that sounds like a logical thing to do to hold back the steam and build it up into the mains first..i do have a gorton 2 and 1 on the long main and a hoffman 75 and gorton 1 on the short main.

the cfm of venting at 1 oz of a hoffman 40 is 0.042 and a maid o mist c is 0.283 and a maid o mist d is 0.341.

I read that there are two schools of thought on this issue regarding venting fast and slow. i also read that the lower steam pressure the better.

the other day i put the boiler on from a cold start and there wasn't even a call for heat. the house was really cold and the steam started to reach the radiator valves in a short time.

so i guess this issue is open to debate here and i surely would like to hear all sides.

as a matter of fact i have a bunch of hoffman 40's that i can put to the test as well when i get a chance.

Abracadabra

KC_Jones said:

It's on page 14 of the balancing steam book. Just below the cubic foot numbers for pipe.

On page 14, my Balancing Steam has a story about "can you vent too fast". Page 13 is the table for traps.

ww

yes...they are great articles loaded with information.

ww

i agree you both abracadabra and hatterasguy ...you can vent too fast..it turns into a game sometimes of seeing where the hogs are..and slowing them down from eating all the steam up...

i'm finding in this game it takes alot of patience and observation...and it seems success is a blend of alot of different things.

it's liked giving a horse a bucket of oats and molasses with carrots...and a bale of hay..which one do you think the horse will eat first?

DanHolohan

ww said:

thanks for the input..but in this case that's not what i mean.

Balancing Steam Systems Using a Vent Chart has a section with a number you multiply the square feet of the radiator by to get the cubic feet of air per square foot of edr...i want to know how to figure that out.

I did all the calculations based on what I thought would work and to tell you the truth i ran all the numbers high and low...and they would have all needed a c or d vent so it really doesn't matter..but i am just curious on this one. thanks

take a look at that booklet i refer to and you'll see what i mean if you have it.

Those numbers are from my research. I found the amount of water volume each type of radiator would hold. Once I had that, it was simple to convert it to how much air each radiator would hold.

Dan

Abracadabra

DanHolohan said:

ww said:

thanks for the input..but in this case that's not what i mean.

Balancing Steam Systems Using a Vent Chart has a section with a number you multiply the square feet of the radiator by to get the cubic feet of air per square foot of edr...i want to know how to figure that out.

I did all the calculations based on what I thought would work and to tell you the truth i ran all the numbers high and low...and they would have all needed a c or d vent so it really doesn't matter..but i am just curious on this one. thanks

take a look at that booklet i refer to and you'll see what i mean if you have it.

Those numbers are from my research. I found the amount of water volume each type of radiator would hold. Once I had that, it was simple to convert it to how much air each radiator would hold.

Dan

@DanHolohan‌ Do you include that with the "Balancing Steam Systems"? I don't seem to see that in the pdf I got.

ww

the information you seek is on page 14 just after the vent capacity charts.

ww

thanks Dan...this is great stuff!

Abracadabra

Nope.. nothing there. page 14 and 15 are the tidbit about "Can You Vent too fast?" Ordered the ebook 3 years ago. Maybe that was something that was added later.

ww

it's just before that after the vent info..how much air is in the pipe and how much in the radiator are the headings with figures. maybe.