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Copper pitting

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Comments

  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    One of the studies I read about the pitting issue said that it was made worse with a high PH.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Paul48 said:

    One of the studies I read about the pitting issue said that it was made worse with a high PH.

    There could be something to that because the municipal water company I dealt with drilled new deep wells into glacial shells and the PH went way up to 8.3. They were thrilled because their shallow wells delivered 6.8 to 6.9. Before I left, I was starting to see something like pitting and other unresolved issues. They were all starting to point to alkalinity problems.

  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    For the life of me....I can't remember the other component. Its been a few years since I read it. It was alkalinity and something else.
  • Larry_52
    Larry_52 Member Posts: 182
    edited November 2014
    Dan,

    Since this is not systemic in the hot water system it does seem to be more flow accelerated corrosion related. this would be deemed different from traditional errosion corrosion and you can look up the term to spare you from the long winded difference.

    I wanted to mention a change to chloramine treatment in supply as a possible suspect but that too would be systemic in nature.

    FAC is dependent on temperature, velocity, and chemistry. So I would just take a leg from the tripod here, change the pipe size up, lower the temp 10 to 15 degrees or chemically treat (not a great option in domestic supply).
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    edited November 2014
    Not to be an Itch, but Dan seems to have the similar problem I have encountered. Its not in ALL hot water copper pipes, but just in CERTAIN copper pipes. That seem to have a common manufacturer in mixed manufacturer copper tubing. And that a careful inspection might show that pieces of a length of copper of the same size are the leakers.

    They tell medical students that if they are in the park and hear hoof beats, to think horses. Not Zebra's.

    I saw it in many houses on wells. There were no Chloramines in the water. Not ONCE in a heating system. But always in the bottom third of the tubing.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    Flow accelerated corrosion is fairly easy to diagnose. It occurs first, where the pipe changes direction, and if you cut into the failed spot, you will see an eroded divit.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Paul48 said:

    Flow accelerated corrosion is fairly easy to diagnose. It occurs first, where the pipe changes direction, and if you cut into the failed spot, you will see an eroded divit.

    That would be so in a heating application. I only saw it in Potable Water where the flow was only for potable water use. It was always (as I can remember) in straight runs, not near any tees or ells. Just in an odd piece of pipe.

    Back in the late 1970's, early 1980's Massachusetts allowed Type "M" copper for potable water piping. Like they did in Florida. I saw it in a lot of Type "M" tube but also in Type "L".

    Its my understanding that down here in Florida, they used Type "M tube. They also put something in the water to coat iron so you don't need iron filters on municipal water. But it coats the inside of the pipe with a thick film. If you unsolder a 1/2" cop compression sink stop, there will be a big ring of this hard white stuff that almost obstructs the opening into the valve. Once you scrape it out, you see how thin the tube is. Florida is the land of cheap. They still carry Type "M" copper water tube in the trucks for when they can't run PEX. I asked the maintenance guy about religious (Holy) copper tube. He says that he's seen his share. Something to look forward to.
  • Hilly
    Hilly Member Posts: 428
    Type 'M' is hot and heavy around here still.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,481
    Hi: I'll vote to go with PEX. It holds up far better than copper to aggressive water. Stick with the plastic rather than brass fittings. Beats building your very own water treatment plant! I might check that all grounds are run so that the copper pipe is not necessary as a conductor.

    Yours, Larry
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Hilly said:

    Type 'M' is hot and heavy around here still.

    You know it is rotten Type "M" tube when you put a #15 copper tube cutter on a pipe and it crushes the tube.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 16,123
    icesailor said:

    My best way of telling is the taste of the first draw of cold water in the morning. If it makes you want to throw up, the PH is really low because of copper in the water. Another way is if you are a pure coffee drinker, drink quality coffee, black with no sugar, if it tastes fine in the AM, the water os palatable. Make the same pot of coffee with bottled water like Poland Springs. If the coffee tastes better, your water clucks. If you have green stains in the tub or shower, you have a low PH.

    Wouldn't the best way be with some litmus paper?
    I'd be willing to bet Dan has some.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    "" Wouldn't the best way be with some litmus paper?
    I'd be willing to bet Dan has some. ""

    No. Litmus paper may show some acidity. Not ant taste or odor.

    The problem is copper sulphate which gives an extremely bitter taste to the water. If it is bad enough, it can make you vomit.

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