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Damper

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Steaming101
Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
in Strictly Steam
After me doing skimming Ive been monitoring to see if my boiler is working better and seems it is but now that I'm sitting thru a heating cycle I noticed that my damper never went on. Is this normal or should I be worried?
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  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    The damper never opened? If so, stop.. shutdown the boiler. Get it fixed.
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    Can I do this?
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    When you say the "Damper never went on" do you mean it never opened? If that's the case, that will let carbon monoxide enter your home. You need to get a service tech out to check that before you run that boiler again. The safety features on the boiler controls should have shut the burner down when the damper failer to open. Are you sure it never opened? Is the shaft that runs through the damper turning causing the boiler controls to think the damper is open? If that's the case, check to see how that damper is mounted on that shaft. Is it spot welded or clamp and screws? If clamped, did the screws simply come loose?
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    Before I used to hear the damper rotate now I don't hear it
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    Here are the pics
  • Robert O'Connor_12
    Robert O'Connor_12 Member Posts: 728
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    looks closed.
    don't use it.
    get it repaired or replaced.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    Has to be fixed!
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    Any one know of someone in Nassau Long Island?
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,734
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    How can you tell if it's opened or closed i those pictures?

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,479
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    With a flashlight and a mirror you could look up and tell.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,734
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    BobC said:

    With a flashlight and a mirror you could look up and tell.

    Bob

    That was my first though, but I assumed others could tell by the pictures shown.

    I didn't think the damper would allow the burner to ever fire unless it opened. If it's stuck shut isn't there a way to manually open it and lock it open?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    It's close! and when I turn the thermostat up the boiler won't fire. how long do this things last?
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,734
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    I've heard they fail from time to time. Hopefully someone will say how to manually open it.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    I manually open it but now the boiler won't Fire!
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,734
    edited November 2014
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    Did you just flip the switch on it, or did you physically manually open it?

    The burner shouldn't fire unless it's actually open and if it burned out flipping the switch won't work.

    Of course there is always the chance the damper has nothing to do with it and something else failed.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    I manually open it
  • Mark N
    Mark N Member Posts: 1,115
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    If the vent damper didn't open I would think it would cause the blocked vent switch to trip open. That is manual reset. If this is beyond what your comfortable with find a pro.
  • Mark N
    Mark N Member Posts: 1,115
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    That boiler looks like it might be a Burnham. According to manual the vent damper needs to open to operate the boiler. if one is not used there is a jumper that is installed in the vent damper wiring harness. Therefore I find it hard to believe the boiler fired up with the damper not operating properly and if it did why didn't the blocked vent switch trip open and turn off the boiler? Get a pro in to figure this out.
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    Vent dampers fail quite often..Yes you can jump it out…for trouble shooting purposes….Many times it the 4 prong connector at the dampener has issues…The pins or sockets become loose, making for a bad connection….Wiggle the connection….Even easier get a meter and measure voltage..Please do not just lock it open and run it…You could up in a not so good situation….I am sure the manufacture,of the failed units are on a nice sales vacation, while home owners and service people fix there crap...
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    ChrisJ said:

    How can you tell if it's opened or closed i those pictures?

    @ChrisJ zoom in on the first pic. Look at the damper bar. The flat indicates the direction the damper is in. It's closed.

    I have to shake my head when homeowners want to jumper a safety device. Guess they haven't heard of CO poisoning deaths in the news.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,734
    edited November 2014
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    Abracadabra said:

    ChrisJ said:

    How can you tell if it's opened or closed i those pictures?

    @ChrisJ zoom in on the first pic. Look at the damper bar. The flat indicates the direction the damper is in. It's closed.

    I have to shake my head when homeowners want to jumper a safety device. Guess they haven't heard of CO poisoning deaths in the news.

    I don't consider having the damper manually open as "bypassing a safety device" The damper is an energy saver and as long as it's disconnected in the open position what is the problem?

    Further more, if something did go wrong the spill switch is also there to protect the user. Obviously we don't want to rely on a "worst cast scenario last resort safety device" like the spill switch but it is there.

    My view on the entire thing right now is we are trying to get the person's heat back on and that he would replace the damper.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    Yea, on that damper, the flat bar is an indicator of the damper position. On a damper where carbon monoxide is an issue, I wouldn't depend on the spill switch. He should be able to find a replacement damper locally. If not, I'd take the damper out completely by taking that flat bar and damper out, plug the holes temporarily, then he can jumper it as there will be no risk of holding gases in the house.
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    I switch the manual button to open the damper but the boiler still not firing. I looked under the the hood and check and saw the damper open. Does this mean is not the damper? That is causing the boiler not to fire. Is there something else I should check?
  • Mark N
    Mark N Member Posts: 1,115
    edited November 2014
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    Do you have the manual for the vent damper? There is a trouble shooting guide in the manual. If your not comfortable following the guide call a pro to get your heat fixed. If the vent damper motor assembly is bad the boiler will not fire even when jumped out.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
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    I'd start by checking the sensor/damper control on the boiler. It is quite possible that has failed. Make sure all the connections are good. If they are, you are going to have to do (or have a tech) more dianostics but the fact that the boiler won't kick on coupled with the fact the damper didn't open automaticcally probably means you have identified the source of the problem and that the safety devices did their job.
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
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    ChrisJ said:


    I don't consider having the damper manually open as "bypassing a safety device" The damper is an energy saver and as long as it's disconnected in the open position what is the problem?

    Chris, I agree with you. But it sounded like the boiler was operating and he didn't hear the damper move. His pictures show the damper closed. I'm assuming it is somehow bypassed, otherwise the burner should not light.

  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,734
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    On my WM the vent damper was originally after the LWCO so if the LWCO failed, or a low water condition existed the vent damper would remain closed and of course the burner wouldn't fire.
    Abracadabra said:

    ChrisJ said:


    I don't consider having the damper manually open as "bypassing a safety device" The damper is an energy saver and as long as it's disconnected in the open position what is the problem?

    Chris, I agree with you. But it sounded like the boiler was operating and he didn't hear the damper move. His pictures show the damper closed. I'm assuming it is somehow bypassed, otherwise the burner should not light.

    Ah.
    Not sure what went down. It sounds like somehow the boiler did operate with it shut, but now won't. The only way I can see that is if the switch in the damper failed, allowing the burner to get power even though it was closed and that tripped the spill switch.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • gcp13
    gcp13 Member Posts: 122
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    make sure damper is open by rotating it.
    set it to manual
    follow black and white wire on side of boiler heading to the draft hood on the back they go to a thermal spill switch that can be reset by pushing the red pin between both wire connectors on the switch.
    make sure you have a good draft..if not shut down boiler and get the chimney checked
    ChrisJ
  • gcp13
    gcp13 Member Posts: 122
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    if you cycle the power while the damper was open it stays open as long as the t-stat is calling for heat.you have to turn the t-stat off to have the damper close then try it again
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    So I had a plumber come out and test the damper. He reset the thermal spill switch and checked all connections from the t-stat to damper. Which I had already done with no success. he removed the pressuretrol and "pigtail" and cleaned it. Then, said "the pressuretrol was not allowing the boiler to turn on." Why didn't I think of that? That cost me $185.00. Overpriced? it was after hours. He left around 9:30pm. Nonetheless, thank you all for your help and comments. Im so glad to have heat now.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,734
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    Well,

    We should not be discussing pricing on here however,

    I don't know, personally I think knowing it's working correctly is worth a measly $185. What do you think?


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,868
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    Plugged pigtail. Some pressure got caught between the pressuretrol and the clog, holding the pressuretrol "off". Definitely not the first time I've seen this happen.

    And, we don't discuss pricing on this site.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    Cant agree more about pricing….If they talk price lock them out….Yup pigtails clog often…Thats why boiler owners need to have the boilers serviced...
  • Mark N
    Mark N Member Posts: 1,115
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    Sounds like money well spent to me. Came out to the customers house on a Saturday night and restored their heat is a safe manner. Price is not to be discussed here, but before you question the price charged don't forget all contractors have overhead that needs to be paid. Their trucks, insurance, advertising, supplies, tools, employees, the shop, the accountant, heat for the shop, the list goes on and on.
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    True! but when I asked him what's in a yearly maintanence he said clean the burners check safety devices and add cleaning additive to boiler. When I asked him abt skimming he kind of shook his head and said no need for that just additive will work. What should be done on a maintenance visit?
  • Steaming101
    Steaming101 Member Posts: 30
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    My apologies abt discussing price!
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,734
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    Steaming101 said:

    True! but when I asked him what's in a yearly maintanence he said clean the burners check safety devices and add cleaning additive to boiler. When I asked him abt skimming he kind of shook his head and said no need for that just additive will work. What should be done on a maintenance visit?

    Never use a cleaning additive.
    I run water treatment, but clean the old fashion way.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,426
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    My name is Danny Scully and I operate Scully's Plumbing in the Nassau County area of Long Island. We would be glad to offer you a more detailed maintenance program, which could include skimming/wand cleaning your boiler.
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,479
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    Skimming only has to be done after significant piping work or boiler replacement. Companies want to use additives because the cost of having someone babysit a boiler for what could be several 2-3 hour skimming sessions is just too high. They should show the homeowner how it's done and tell them it may take several sessions to get rid of all the oils.

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    ChrisJ
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,868
    edited November 2014
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    For the record, the pic Chris posted was a gas explosion in Oldham, England, where an abusive drunk cut the gas pipe in his house and blew it up to retaliate against his girlfriend. Fortunately they threw him in jail where he belongs. But these kinds of things happen through negligence and incompetence as well.

    If you think about it, a plugged pigtail can permit a boiler to reach highly dangerous pressures, if there is no pressure trapped between the clog and the control. The boiler pressure would not be able to reach the control thru the clog. Now, at least your pressure control can work properly and safely.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting

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