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Recent Steam Boiler Install

ProblemSolver
ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
edited October 2014 in Strictly Steam
Finished a steam install last week. We had a flood here in the Detroit area, and homes flooded everywhere. This customer has quite a good insurance policy; they paid for the replacement of the boiler and the asbestos wrap is going to be removed soon - more work for me!
So I thought I would share these pic's with this really cool site! I welcome comments.

Comments

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 15,767
    Definitely much better than what was there. Is that a 3-inch riser going into a 4-inch main?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    Steamhead: Indeed. That 4" main is 4-1/2 feet long which feeds a 3" and a 2". I know what you are going to say... But I spoke with the engineer at the supply house and told him I wanted to use both risers (3") and a 4" header; explaining the info above. Then told him the manufactures recommendation was a single 3" riser & header. He said that I should follow the manufactures recommendations, and my ideas were good, but not necessary. After doing some reading this weekend, both on this site and other books I have, I should have stuck with my idea. This is my second steam boiler piping this season and both manufacture recommendations for piping are off from what should be done. What's up with that? I have not piped the second one yet; sending out the bid for it soon; with my own piping layout and not the manufacture's suggestions. It's the boiler re-pipe you commented on yesterday.
  • Abracadabra
    Abracadabra Member Posts: 1,948
    edited October 2014
    ProblemSolver, nice clean install. Always found it strange that W-M recommends the riser and return to both be on the same side on these EG boilers. I install quite a few LGBs every year and on those, their recommendation when only a single riser is required to go with the return on the opposite side. The riser and return on same side is counter-intuitive to me.
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    Abracadabra: It makes sense to me, everything is on the control side. But what I don't like is not increasing the header one size up from the riser. The only think i could come up with for their one riser and keeping the header the same size, and having that riser on the control side - only; is this particular boiler can be a hot water boiler or a steam boiler, and that particular riser tap (on the control side) has the bubble trap with an air vent tap right next to it; thus, blocking 1/3 of that 3" riser tap. So in a sense, only 2/3 worth of steam can get through that 3" riser tap. Probably equivalent to a 2" pipe worth of steam entering that 3" riser and header.
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    Why only require one riser? I sure would like to get their calculations on that one!
  • JStar
    JStar Member Posts: 2,752
    What model boiler?
    EdwinD
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    EG55
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 13,907
    Not sure if it really matters which side the return is on vs the riser, the water comes back so slow it's probably moot.

    You were right in wanting to use two risers and the only reason the manufacturer recommends one is to compete with other brands in regards to installation cost.

    For an EG-55 I would have done two 2.5 or two 3" risers into a 4" header.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • gennady
    gennady Member Posts: 839
    edited October 2014
    I always install valves on supply and return. You need to clean boiler and system separately during commissioning. Also for testing in the future. 2 risers are must regardless manufacturer's minimum requirements. This return line , what is the distance between water level and this pipe? I guess it is dry return. Kind of. I would raise boiler on the base to have it flooded. You need drip for back flow And relieve valve. I would not do reduced 90 on Hartford loop I would drop full size to water level. Insulation. Also, in supply house no engineers. Only sales man.
    jonny88
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    That was my gut feeling; two 2-1/2" risers into a 4" header. I felt more comfortable with that, but the manufacture's install booklet and the local engineer was against it, or suggested it's not necessary.
    Will not happen again... the next, one on the books, I am not following the suggested piping sizes.
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    gennady: Return line is 2-1/2" below water line. Water line is 2/3 up the glass. Return line runs half way around the basement with a pitch, to flood the return line the boiler would have to go up about 2 ft at a guess. We have a lot of return lines like that in the northern suburbs of Detroit. Yes, it's a dry return, but not a drip. The discharge lines were installed after the pic's, and the insulation is going on after the asbestos is removed from all pipes. Thank you for your feedback, especially the one about supply house sales men.
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    The full size drop to water level? that's the first time I had heard that. That's a 2" drop off a 3" header - manufacturer suggest 1-1/2". What are you gaining with a 3" drop?
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,396
    Look into a false water line next time you run across returns in "limbo" :smile:
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    A question.....We've seen many pictures of systems with sloped returns like the one pictured. Does that reduce the pressure increase that would be attained with a vertical drop?
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    Good question Paul48. I guess the question would be, what's the difference? Horizontal return - halfway up the basement wall and halfway around the basement; as oppose to, a drip return at the boiler.
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    There are no vents in this return, so steam cannot enter the horizontal / sloped return, and back at the end of the steam main, the return does drop / drip half way down the wall which is the other side of the basement from the boiler. All in all, my dimension A is greater than 28".
  • ProblemSolver
    ProblemSolver Member Posts: 190
    But it's that horizontal / sloped return that has me questioning how much water will leave the boiler, into the return, once the boiler begins making steam under pressure.