Where to start

Hilly

This a One-Pipe (Mono-Flo) system that has a zone chopped in for a basement series loop and then the zone valves added for control of each. I've been asked to remove the oil-fired boiler and put in an electric boiler. Their oil tank expires next year and they've had experience with oil leaks in the past. So the only demand is that it be an electric boiler. But I cannot look at this system a imagine that it operates nicely. Can a mono-flow work with such a small zone valve on there? Wouldn't that reck havoc on everything from there forward? Would it but wiser to re-pipe the new boiler with two pumps, one for each zone and keep the mono-flo loop full sized? Or would just running 1" copper be fine? I mean currently the supply and returns are bushed down to 3/4". I know this is a boiler only replacement but I'd be tagged with all future heating issues with claims that... it worked before. Thanks for any support on this one. Also would a pump like a Grundfos play nice on a mono-flo system. The system as all manual adjustment rad valves installed currently. I suggested re-piping the whole system as a home-run setup but I think that will come in the spring. So for now it's just the boiler and near piping.

icesailor

I've put tons of Zone Valves on Mono-flow systems to split them in half. I never replaced circulators. I never had a problem.

I NEVER did anything like that. You could add a placer mining pump to that and it still won't work properly.

An electric boiler? Really? Who sold them on that? The Power Company?

Hilly

But this is the stuff you get every single day here. It's amazing actually what you can find. I mean I'm sure it goes on everywhere. I mean I'm sure we'll rarely see the ones done right because that don't require these calls.

icesailor

There's never enough time to do it right. But always time to do it over.

You can't shove 10# of equine road apples into a 5# sack, you can't shove the water from a 1# or 1 1/4" pipe through a 1/2" zone valve. Especially when the 1/2" zone valve is probably not a full sized port.

You'll need one big hydraulic mining pump to jamb enough water through that valve to get the Mono-Flows to work.

I had no idea that the newer Califfi and Taco zone valves came with larger ports. They aren't stocked. Probably because they cost more money. If I was still out there, I'd be buying the large orifice valves to cut back on all that turbulence and air created from venture effects. No wonder you need all this air separation equipment that was never needed before.

Like a heart patient, that system needs a coronary by-pass to improve the flow of fluid to the system.

Who's installing all these electric boilers? Electricians? Are they connecting them to the systems too and only the electricians get paid the re-bates? Plumbers and Heaters don't qualify for the rebates?

Hilly

No rebates for anybody. Plumbers do the work.

icesailor

Hilly said:

No rebates for anybody. Plumbers do the work.

Technically, the only part that is "plumbing" is connecting the water feed properly and having the 9D backflow in the proper location. BEFORE the fill valve, not AFTER. So many non-plumbers were buying separate valves and installing them improperly that Watts came out with the connected "9-11" combo backflow and feeder. The backflow ALWAYS comes first. As it always did on the readable instructions.

Hilly

Technically if you have LF prv could it not be installed upstream of the BFP? I know the watts one is of a cast iron body and that is the reasoning behind being downstream of the BFP.

Now on a large job or a job with antifreeze where a RP backflow is required the prv can be ideal upstream of the BFP. When there's flucuating water pressure in the service line the AWWA taught us that a soft seating check or prv upstream of a RP would help prevent a dripping relief port. At least that's what I was told. I've yet to have to install one like I stated, but just saying.

icesailor

The BFD is supposed to be before the PRV. If it has Anti-Freeze in the system, you should be using a reduced pressure zone BFD with the test ports. And some Jurisdictions want the fill left OFF or disconnected. I don't know where you are getting Cast Iron Watts 1156F's. We couldn't get them in Massachusetts for at least 7 years. Then, you get the 9-11 Combi valves. I figured it was because of all the HVAC people that installed them switched around. The CI PRV's were always clogging up on the outlet screen if there was any dissolved iron in the water. The solid brass didn't do that. The CI 1156K's were cheap. Suddenly, you couldn't get the iron ones, but the brass ones were the same price. I figured the Board of Directors would never sell a more expensive valve for the same price as a cheaper one unless there was a really compelling reason to do so. Like all the dead boilers I and others saw where the fill valve didn't work. And the supplier I bought from with 19 stores in Massachusetts, RI and NH, always told me that he wasn't running a welfare program.

If Jay stopped selling cheaper CI PRV's, there had to be a reason.

JMO.

Hilly

I can assure you the iron body prvs from Watts are still going strong here, it's the only 12-25# available in stock. And in fact you cannot even buy the combo ones by Watts here because people won't pay the extra. And if the plumbing inspections in my city didn't require the 9D (ducap of any brand would do but watts is what they all carry) then the plumbers will not install it and they'll hym and haa if sometimes tells them they have to. One place has the Caleffi combo unit which is what I prefer.

Hilly

I just searched and cannot find anything on there site. But I'm sure the last one I'd bought, over a year ago, was of iron body and the instruction sheet said for that reason the bfp had to be before the prv. Maybe it was an old one. I'll have to check tomorrow and see what's on the shelves at the supply store. Sorry if I'm wrong, but I don't mind being enlighted. Plus you always have a story to go with your comments... Your posts are always worth reading no matter what topic it is about.