Hot water radiators in place of steam system or hvac

MT626

I have an old home in Long Island, NY with single pane windows and poorly insulated. The home previously had steam heat but this has been removed (pipes cut and radiators removed). The details of why the steam was removed is a long story but suffice to say the system is out.



My options now are an upgrade to HVAC or hot water heating and I need some opinions on what route to consider.



Hvac has the bonus of heat and cooling, but I am concerned given the age and poor insulation and single page windows, that the house will be uncomfortably cold. But hvac installers are saying it will be fine. The hvac cost is around 30k.



For hot water, the cost is around $20k. Of course, there is no cooling. But I figure I could always get some ductless mini splits for a couple of key rooms. For me personally, central cooling is nice to have but not a main driver compared to heat. Hence, I can live with room units for cooling.



Main questions:



1) are the monthly costs for heating for each option very different?

2) how does air heat compare to radiators considering this is a home with poor insulation and single pane windows?

3) is hvac considered much better for home value vs hot water and ductless. I'm wondering if it really makes a difference. Hvac is considered more updated but I'm not sure if that's very important for home value in New York



I would be most grateful for responses.



Mariam

Rich_49

Good questions

1)  are the monthly costs for heating for each option very different? 

 Yes

2) how does air heat compare to radiators considering this is a home with poor insulation and single pane windows? 

   Water holds energy much better than air , a 3/4 pipe can move the same BTUs as a 14" x 8" duct . Air also loses that energy at a more rapid rate than water . A home with poor windows and insulation is MUCH better off with water based heating than air . You also have the benefit of upgrading at a later date and achieving a VERY efficient home . 

3) is hvac considered much better for home value vs hot water and ductless. I'm wondering if it really makes a difference. Hvac is considered more updated but I'm not sure if that's very important for home value in New York . 

  HVAC is heating , ventilation , cooling .  Ducted is the word you are looking for , the only system that absolutely must have ducts is Ventilation .  Hot water heat and ductless mini splits would be more economical on a month to month bills basis . People in NY and everywhere want The lowest bills possible . When and if you sell your home show them the bills , a recent study showed that 90% of homebuyers were more interested in those than anything else .



Go with the hot water system with Panel radiators w/ TRVs sized for low water temps and make damn sure your designer / installer knows this business . I caution you that financial success and recognition and TV ads are not key factors in this search .  Install the key mini splits and you'll be happy .

MT626

Thank you

Thank you Rich. I'm most appreciative of your guidance.



Couple of follow-ups -



Cost is another factor. How are cast iron radiators compared to the panels? I have recessed walls where the old steam radiators once were. I thought it might be cheaper to size out new radiators to fit into those spaces and save me some cost. Those panel radiators with TRV look wonderful and I will investigate. But I assume these are expensive. If I go cast iron radiators do you think I will still have the warmth and efficiency benefit over forced air? The old radiators had piping that I thought I could run the new pex piping through and save some work of cutting new through the house for new piping.



Mariam

jonny88

Rich this is Long Island

Hi Rich I couldn't agree more with your answer.Panel rads with TRV.This is what I am proposing to a potential client.I have a heating consultant design system,heatloss etc.We proposed radiant but money was an issue.This was the next best option.Return on investment.The reason I say Long Island Rich is because majority of homes are covered wall to wall with baseboard.Great answer you gave this person.

By the way without adequate insulation etc your new heating system will be fighting a loosing battle.I feel that is where you should start.There is programs out there where you can get funding if money is tight(nyserda).If you tighten your house and take Rich's advice then you will have a comfortable system and add value to your house.

MT626

Tightening old home

Jonny, Thanks for the confirmation. I'm curious about how to tighten the home. Window replacement isn't possible right now. Is there more I can do to tighten the home?

Mariam

psb75

Energy audit

Find someone or a co. that does energy audits. They can do a "blower-door test" and find where your house has signif. and lesser air-leaks. These are the first things to fix, and then improve your insulation. The same co. should also have an infrared camera, for finding poorly insulated areas of your house.