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Aquatherm piping

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Charlie from wmass
Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,322
I am looking at a hot water system that this is being considered as a piping option. Have any wallies had experience good or bad with this? The main lines will be 2 1/2" or 3" depending on which engineers numbers are to believed.
Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

cell # 413-841-6726
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating

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  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
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    Again in the Main Wall

    Aquatherm is our preferred choice for sizes over 1" nominal for both hydronic  heat/cooling and DHW.  If the largest pipe in the job is 1", we specify  ProPEX for everything.  On larger jobs, it's still easier to use PEX for the small stuff and transition around ~9 GPM to Aquatherm.  The  flexibility and cost of saddle welding are tough to beat.  Watch out for the transition fittings -- over 1" they get spendy fast.
  • Henry
    Henry Member Posts: 998
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    Aquatherm

    We are on of the first to use the PP pipe on heating jobs. We have used it from 2.5 to 4 inch. We had to buy a container full as distribution here was the pits. I visited the plant and labs. We experimented with it to see if it could meet S636 for venting. It did but the market is already saturated with other products.



    We bought the fusion devices but you can probably rent them.

    It is a very good product that is used even on cruise ships!

    Henry
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    I like it.

    I have had good luck with the product. Up to 2" I can push it together without the jig. Makes the job go super fast. It definitely saves a whole lot of time in the boiler room.



    Like SWEI said. The fitting adapters are expensive. I try to keep them to a minimum. Also, I think you have to use the Aquatherm pipe clamps. I haven't found any generic ones that fit correctly.



    Harvey
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,322
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    how about over head work

    looking at 2" to 1" for lateral branches with 3/4" out to each unit. That I think I would go with propress copper for though. I will be tying into fintube and the return will be in the baseboard.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    Overhead

    I can't really attest to that because I didn't do overhead laterals. I will tell you that pushing together 2" all day long, separates the men from the boys. Saddle welding is awesome too and it goes quick! You can saddle weld soo long as the branch is half the size of the main or smaller.



    I sometimes use the saddle welding to quickly and Inexpensively build my own hydrolic seperators.





    Harvey
  • gennady
    gennady Member Posts: 839
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    Aquatherm

    We got certified with Aquatherm, but immediate availability of the fittings in NYC is limited to one outfit with very bad reputation for stealing and cheating where I cancelled my account. Just cannot afford to wait for 2 days to get that one fitting.
  • Harvey Ramer
    Harvey Ramer Member Posts: 2,239
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    Yah

    Everybody wants to say, hey we carry that!



    Oh you do, do you? Where?



    Oh, it's at another branch but give us your order and we'll have everything here for you.



    Calling from jobsite. Hey I need a couple more fittings.



    Ok, they'll be here in three days.



    What!! Why so long?



    Well that's when our branch to branch delivery truck goes. But we can have them for you tomorrow. We'll just UPS it over, there will be shipping charges.



    I hate you.





    I get blessed with ridiculous shipping charges all year long.



    Harvey
    AlCorelliNY
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,517
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    Aquatherm

    We did a whole school with it. Good stuff but not cheap. Getting fittings is always a problem. We did a few smaller jobs with it as well. We did everything up to 6". Over 2" is tough you need expensive tools to buy or you can rent them.

    There's a company in Baltimore that stocks all the fittings (Yates?) I think is there name.

    Hangers, hangers, hangers. the stuff is not self supporting. Your supposed to use plastic lined hangers and lots of them. The hanger spacing is in there book based on temperature and pipe size your hanging every 4, 5 or 6 feet in some cases.

    getting the giant machine up in the air to fuse is a real problem on anything bigger than 4". We used some electro fusion couplings (pricey). Up to 4" is not as bad. The big machine is the way to go if you do a lot of it. they do have a jig to use on 2 1/2-4" to pull it together buti t's a PITA.

    Watch out when estimating a 6" joint takes a long time to heat and the cool down time before you can take the fitting out of the machine is about 25 min. Meanwhile your stuck not being able to use the machine while it's cooling.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    edited June 2014
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    Larger diameters

    can feel a bit like wrestling anacondas at times.  We borrowed one of the early clampy-jig things from our rep and decided it was not worth the money they wanted for it at the time.  Several newer designs have come along -- this one looks like it would be much easier to use overhead than what we had http://www.mcelroy.com/ppr/socket/opt_machine.htm



    We opted out of the butt fusion by subbing out the handful of 6" connections on the job.  Bought a full set of tooling up through 63mm (2") and am happy playing there, with occasional forays up to 125mm (4") as needed.



    Sourcing is a challenge, but then in our remote location that is nearly always the case.  I have at least seven supply house branches who are one day UPS away and stock Aquatherm.  Sometimes it can take a couple of calls to find the right fusion outlet.  Specialty items like pump flanges are special order, but Webstone flanges usually work better on most jobs anyway.
  • jonny88
    jonny88 Member Posts: 1,139
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    charlie

    i thought an old schooler like you would like to solder,why propress?i have used it but availability on parts sucked,for me for now I will keep my torch in the truck.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,322
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    Johnny I do not yet use propress

    I was looking at a job the owner is in a huge hurry. I have also walked away from the project but I am going forward with getting certified for Aquatherm installation.

    I was looking at 2 1/2" mains with many 3/4" taps for each zone. I am a dinosaur when it comes to steam craftsmanship and gas piping. I am willing to grab onto the future when it comes to water distribution.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    jonny88
  • Youngdogs2
    Youngdogs2 Member Posts: 14
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    You mentioned issues with hanging the PP.....use Walraven hangers. They're designed hangers to fit Aquatherm and Niron. Also look at Niron as a competitor to Aquatherm. I used it and it has a 30 year warranty over the 10 year and is not the gross color green and blue pipe.