Please critique this layout

KC_Jones

I am still working on this so it isn't finished.  This is the near boiler piping layout for the replacement I am planing.  I would appreciate any input on what I have so far.  Is there any limit on how much the header can drop?  The one I am showing is pretty significant because I am trying to maximize the space to hookup to my mains.  For reference I laid it out to be 2 2" risers connecting to a 3" header and all the main take offs are 2" as well.  All comments are welcome.  Thank you.

Snowmelt

Wow

They are pretty good diagrams did you do that yourself, I would do the first one.

KC_Jones

Yes

I do 3D design by trade and I have been using my lunch breaks to work this out.  They are actually all the same layout just different views one isometric view, a front and side view.   Oh and I forgot to mention this is going to be a Weil Mclain EG-40 boiler.  Thanks.

Fred

Like it!

KC, I really like it!!

Danny Scully

Do not

Do not bush the outlets, unless I'm not understanding the image right.

KC_Jones

Yes

Those are bushings.  On the Weil Mclain boilers those are 3" taps.  Their minimum requirement is for a single 2 1/2" tap, but I am going with 2-2" so basically no matter what I do I will probably be using a bushing.  I could do a single 3", but I like the idea of using both taps better.  Dan has said if there are 30 (can't remember number he used) taps I would use them all.  I am going with both, but using a slightly smaller size for budget reasons.  ChrisJ on this site has installed a similar boiler with the 2" taps and doesn't seem to have a problem.  Thanks for the input!

Fred

Maybe a reducer?

Hey KC, might it be better to come up from the boiler about 4 inches with a 3 inch nipple and then put a reducer on that to take you down to the 2 inch riser you want ? I'm not sure there is any problem with a bushing but it might be easier, if, for some reason, in the future, you need to get that nipple out than it would be to remove a bushing. Also, I don't know the dynamics of contraction/expansion on  two separate fittings (bushing and pipe) on the cast iron boiler as opposed to just the pipe.

JStar

Piping

I would avoid putting unions on the horizontal. They aren't necessary, and they are more likely to leak.

KC_Jones

Maybe a flange?

Instead of the union?  I was just trying to make the piping a bit easier to put together.  Without a union or flange it seems like a lot of pipe work to put together all at once.  Not a pro so forgive any ignorance I have.

JStar

Unions

It's really no extra work. You just install one riser and the header. Then install the second riser backwards from the header to the boiler.

KC_Jones

lol

As soon as I read that it clicked.  I always forget about going backwards.  Thanks for the input!

ChrisJ

Bushings

I used bushings on my EG-45 and have absolutely no problems. 



When do you expect to have the new boiler installed by?  Friday?

KC_Jones

I just fell out of my chair

Laughing at that one.  I hope to have it installed sometime before it gets cold again.  I am in the middle of remodeling my living room in addition to this project so I will be a busy man this spring/summer/fall.  Not to mention a wife and 3 kids that I have to pay attention to.  One thing though I may be ordering apprentice T-shirts for my boys, they love helping dad!

Snowmelt

PC skills

Your PC skills are good, I want to copy it and use it for my point of reference.



This question is for star or the smarter steam boiler people



Why would you want shut off valves to isolate the boiler?

KC_Jones

Blowdown

It's to isolate the boiler build up pressure and blow the crud out the bottom of the boiler.

JStar

Pipe size

In regard to the pipe sizes....



According to my own charts, you can use one 3" riser or two 2" risers. The single 2.5" riser wouldn't be adequate. And a 3" header, which you have already. I'm not convinced that bushings are a problem for performance, although a good point was made about the ease of removal at a later date.

KC_Jones

Can I hope

I don't need to remove them at a later date?  That was a joke, well sort of.  I guess my thinking on that is if I need to remove them at a later date does it matter that much if it's a bushing or a piece of pipe, seems to me anything would be tough to get back out.  I will defer to the experience of the experts on that though.

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

My vote...

I'd use 2 -3 inch x12 inch nipple right out of the boiler and then use a reducing coupling.  The 3 inch nipple will cut the exit velocity from the boiler about 70%.  This is a critical place to reduce velocity since there is  so much water surging up at this point.  The 3 inch will kill the velocity and let most of the water drop back into the boiler so it will never even reach the header.  Rule of thumb on spacing between header take offs is minimum  3xthe header diameter between take offs and 2x before the equalizer.  I'd also leave 3x after the elbow before you hit the first take off.

KC_Jones

Thank you all

For the input!  I will consider all the suggestions and adjust the piping accordingly.  It's a lot easier to fix now then when I get to the real piping.  70%?!  That's crazy and definitely worth considering!  Again thank you all, Dan's books and everyone on this site have been a wealth of knowledge!

Snowmelt

K c

Hey kc do you think you can draw up what steam whisper said to do with the 3 inch riser to a two inch bushing?



Also is the Hartford loop done correct on the bottom. Shouldn't the copper be directly at the elbow going into the machine, in other words what the black tee there for. Couldn't you just go into the copper tee and in the boiler? I would like to take that diagram and run it past my steam guys and see if they like it.

KC_Jones

Yes

Already started making the adjustments.  I only have about 30 minutes a day to work on in (lunch time), but I will get it done.  And yes I didn't like how I started the Hartford loop, it was mainly there as a place holder for alignment purposes.  I am going to move the copper connection off the Tee and add a cast iron elbow with close nipple in that location.  It's still a work in progress.  Thanks for all the comments!

ChrisJ

Gifford?

How about a Gifford loop? I've always heard they produce a more stable water line.

KC_Jones

First

And hopefully last time I have to do this so I am keeping it simple.  I understand the Hartford loop so I am going with it.  Thanks though Chris all input is welcome and appreciated.  And by the way Chris you have been a bit of an inspiration for me being a homeowner tackling this yourself and installing the same equipment I am installing.  So thanks for that!