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another case for pesonal protection

<a href="http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/02/22/1-dead-dozens-rushed-to-area-hospitals-after-carbon-monoxide-leak-at-long-island-mall/">http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/02/22/1-dead-dozens-rushed-to-area-hospitals-after-carbon-monoxide-leak-at-long-island-mall/</a>

Sad case but it hopefully makes you aware that almost NO buildings

in the US, residential or commercial, have adequate CO protection, are

not required to have periodic maintenance that includes CO testing with a

professional combustion analyzer, no requirement or standard for the

techs using such equipment, no requirement for professional periodic inspection

by qualified inspectors of the venting (because HVAC techs are not so

qualified--trust me!), and the UL listing for carbon monoxide alarms

prevents alarms from sounding until you have CO poisoning (10%

carboxyhemoglobin level). Those alarms are designed to protect you from

CO death--Not from CO poisoning and apparently there were none at this


So, what can you an I do? I wear my own personal

CO alarm, which alerts at 35 parts per million after 60 seconds. It is

an electrochemical sensor and very accurate. I take it everywhere. Note

many of the victims in this case were cops and first responders. We walk

into toxic atmospheres all the time and don't know it. We drive in

traffic, fly in planes, stay in hotels or friends homes, shop at stores,

are admitted into hospitals, etc. but there is only one place where you

will routinely find adequate CO monitoring--parking garages. They are

required to have low level sensing linked to alarms and exhaust fans

depending upon the level. Don't be a victim--get your own personal

protection for everyone one you know and wear it or put it in your

pocketbook. Humans cannot detect CO. Very preventable. BTW, the manager

may have died from the trauma of falling down stairs or even had an MI

(heart attack).

We had a similar incident at a local grocery

store where about 30 were transported for treatment. The local EMS had a

personal alarm that sounded when they responded to an elderly lady

collapsed at the bakery. 6 patients were from the attached drugstore

next door. 6 months later, it happened again in the same store from the

same oven! Don't assume anything!


  • Tinman
    Tinman Member Posts: 2,808
    I want to know MORE...

    and that's why I signed up for National Comfort Institute's "Carbon Monoxide and Combustion Analysis" training in Madison, WI, in early April. I think, as a whole, all heating contractors need to be held to higher standards. And just as important, why isn't there a requirement or code that all gas fired and oil fired equipment be tested by a qualified contractor similar to the way emissions tests are required for vehicles?
    Steve Minnich
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,551
    We ate there a few weeks ago.

    The manager who died stopped by our table to chat for a bit. So sad, and so avoidable.

    CO detectors belong wherever people and fire come together.
    Retired and loving it.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    CO Incidents:

    There was another CO incident in Ogunquit Maine last weekend.

    I carried a personal UGI CO71A detector with me for years. I never walked into a strange house without it on, I never went into a basement or crawl space without checking it first. It is as accurate as my Bacharach Insight analyzer.

    I checked into a Motel in Rocky Mount NC at 1:00 AM one night and I smelled combusted gas. My meter read 12 PPM in the lobby near a mechanical pool room. The woman at the desk said she got headaches and watery eyes. I told her to tell maintenance. When I left later in the morning, nothing was done. I tracked down the Rocky Mount FD. They said they would look into it. I never heard back. I stopped again 6 months later. Still the same. You can't fix stupid. "Probably one of those stupid Yankee troublemakers".

    Whatever published information is out there on CO poisoning is out there, it isn't enough. There needs to be more.

    Some sheet metal person will replace a kitchen hood fan with a bigger blower because that's what is available at the time. Starts sucking exhaust back through other appliances, no CO/Interlock on the gas system, and it can be lights out. Sometimes, it's another building next door that puts in a big fan that sucks gasses from another unit.

    If you walk into a clothing store that is next to a fast food place, and you smell French fries, you have the potential of getting CO poisoning.
  • meticulousmike
    meticulousmike Member Posts: 31
    personal CO monitor

    Hi, very interesting and sad to hear. I go into places all the time and see so many cobb job violations and wonder about CO emissions.i put myself at risk for being on these jobs for many hours at a time and don't even know why at some places I get headaches and just think that it's probably from dust or long hours. where can I get one of these personal alarms that are very inexpensive for myself?

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Joe V_2
    Joe V_2 Member Posts: 234
    edited February 2014
    It took three deaths

    in the same motel room in Boone NC for anyone to investigate.

  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    What was the source?

    What was the source of the contamination?
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    edited February 2014

    Here's a link to the UEI Website for the UEI 71A.

    Google that brand and model, You will get a range of prices for the same instrument. I bought mine at FW Webb in Hyannis, MA. I think that they stock them at most of their New England stores.

    They use a 9 volt battery and come with a leather case that you can clip to your belt of inside your pocket.

    I was told about another one by an assistant fire chief of the Mattapoisett, MA Fire Dept. that I looked into. It wasn't that much more, the size of a pack of cigarettes, you turn it on and it stays on for 2 years. Then, you throw it away. It senses over 100 hazardous gasses. Firemen are supposed to carry them.

    It is carried by company's that deal with environmental safety conditions. It looked interesting but I don't go into hazardous locations on a daily basis. The UGI has worked well. I even got 65 PPM in a twin  engine Cessna on a cold day and they had the cabin heater going. We were taxi'ing out slowly and then waited for traffic. I kept watching it go up. When we took off, it went down.

    You'd be shocked where you can get a reading.

  • Joe V_2
    Joe V_2 Member Posts: 234
    Two links with all the details

    This first one might fall under Gross Negligence by contractor who incorrectly converted a pool heater from Propane to natural gas:


    This second link would fall under gross incompetence by inspectors who "performed CPR" on first couple but didn't suspect appliances in pool equipment room and the Medical Examiner who dragged his feet reporting cause of death of first couple to be CO poisoning which would have prevented the third death.


    So, when I read the Rocky Mount incident above, I wasnt surprised.  NC promotes itself as a "business friendly state". 
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    edited February 2014

     < "" NC promotes itself as a "business friendly state". > ""

    Undertaking and Mortuary Business?

    Plus speeding fines on Interstates (like 95) where the speed limit keeps changing?

    Ive hardly ever been passed by "person's of color" in that Southern Corridor. But judging by the fact that 80+% of the people I see stopped on the side of the road, it must be illegal to be DWB.

    What you have to remember about Medical Examiners (some of them), Prosecutors and many Law Enforcement personnel is that they have only been wrong once in their lives.  That time they thought they were wrong. But came to find out that they were right. They never want to make that second (or first mistake), Depending on how they want to look at it. They have never convicted a innocent person, or made a mistake on a cause of death.

    And the Jury is always right. No matter how much evidence to the contrary that was hidden. Its a winner take all. If you're on the losing side, too bad. Too bad if you're dead.