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Can 1 radiator system be converted to 3 separate ones?

Judith
Judith Member Posts: 3
in THE MAIN WALL
Is it possible to convert an old but well functioning whole house gas fired hot water radiator system to 3 individually controlled and billed systems?  We have an apartment building which was a single family home which was converted into 3 apartments.  We pay the heat for the whole building but would like not to have that expense.  The system now has 2 zoned thermostats that work but the zones bear no relationship to the apartments and we're not sure why they exist.  The boiler is old but works well and efficiently.  The house was built in 1870!  Help!

Comments

  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,472
    Sure...

    it just depends on how much you want to spend to do it. You are looking at a near repipe and having to really get 3 new boilers w/ separate meters.
  • Judith
    Judith Member Posts: 3
    How expensive to convert 3 to 1?

    I'm sure it is expensive.  Can you give me a ballpark figure? Thanks!
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
    Difficult estimate

    First go to SlantFin.com, and download their heat loss estimate software for iPad/android. This will give you the heat loss for each apartment.

    Then go to pexsupply.com, to find the boilers you need for each. Next go to a professional, from the find a contractor button here and have him make an estimate for the installation.

    What sort of fuel is available? Where can the flue piping be run?

    If you have had high fuel bills, then have him look at the system and see if there is some efficiency which can be gained by tuning up the present system, (including insulation, and weather stripping). Even a better placed thermostat may help, or perhaps outdoor reset.

    Has the system been maintained properly?--NBC
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    We don't discuss price here

    as a matter of policy, but it will be expensive and quite likely less efficient.  The smallest gas-fired boilers available are still larger than the heat loss of a small to midsize apartment, so you will end up with three short-cycling boilers when you are done.



    What are your energy costs there? http://www.eia.gov/neic/experts/heatcalc.xls is worth a few minutes of your time.  Be sure to update both appliance efficiencies and fuel costs for your various options.



    If this were my property, I'd probably install BTU meters for each unit and then restructure my leases accordingly.
  • Eastman
    Eastman Member Posts: 927
    BTU metering

    This suggestion comes up from time to time, but is BTU metering generally legal in the US? I thought it was not.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    Legalities

    are probably state specific.  Unless it's explicitly banned by statute, lease terms will probably dictate.



    Submetering of electrical use is quite common in commercial buildings.  BTU metering much less so -- in part because the technology to do so was not commonly available until rather recently.  It's still rather expensive, but not when compared with a boiler.



    The utilities benefit from accruing customer charges to as many people as possible.  The customers benefit from avoiding those.
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,858
    It's legal here in Coldorado...

    So long as you don't charge more than you were charged by the utility. Otherwise, you are subject to the controls of the PUC. The Europeans are so much further ahead of us in this regards. They have system that meter and bill not only the heat, but also domestic hot and cold water consumption.



    If you want to get someones attention as it pertains to consumption of natural resources, pinch their wallet and see what happens. "NOT MY money…." Conservation of money is THE most important thing on a residents mind. If they think someone else is paying for it, conservation takes a back seat.



    I believe there is a panel convening soon that will address the issues of metering accuracy. Something with either ASTM or ASSE or ASME, I forget which one. Cold even be ANSI. My life is one big bowl of alphabet soup these days.



    Simply charging a resident based on run time of a zone valve or gas valve is NOT a fair or accurate way of doing business, although done quite often, and defeated more often than not by crafty, wary tenants.



    ME

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Eastman
    Eastman Member Posts: 927
    another possibility

    Charge for comfort beyond the legally required minimum temps. There is plenty of thermostats available for landlord control of the temperature. If the tenant wants access to higher temperatures, allow them to pay x dollars for x number of degrees beyond 62.
  • Judith
    Judith Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for info!

    Thank you all who responded.  The information is very helpful.  Don't know what, if anything, we'll do but now we have some options to consider. 

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