Temp Overshoot and Master Bed Room

McSwiggin

Morning,

I am having a few more issues with my steam system and would like to hear some of your opinions.



Problem 1: Temperature Swing - Feels Cold

As part of my experimenting to improve energy efficiency, I changed my thermostat from 6 CPH (default), to 1 CPH. As a result the system will overshoot by a few degrees, ex. reach 67 deg for a 65 deg setpoint. The problem I am having is that it seems like it gets cold in the house before the boiler comes back on. I think the overshoot contributes to that because we get used to the nice warm room, then it takes forever for it to drop to setpoint at the thermostat, so the rest of the house gets warm. I was going to try spacing the thermostat (Honeywell CT3600) off the wall using washers or cardboard, and plug the hole in the wall with insulation (though in this case that might hurt). Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to fix this? I was going to try 3 CPH next month, as I don't remember this being an issue when set to 6 CPH. Intuitively that doesn't make sense though, other than fixing the overshoot.



Problem 2: Cold Master Bed Room

The second issue I am having is a cold master bed room, and the radiator makes noise. It looks like some previous owner increased the room size but kept the same size radiator. Room is approximately 15' x 22', radiator EDR estimate is 16.65. This room has 9 freakin' windows, replacement double pane. It looks like the addition to the master was accomplished by enclosing a porch, that 15' x 9' portion has 8 of the 9 windows, so basically no insulation as it is mostly glass. I have 2 other bedrooms that have radiators with 28 EDR and 23 EDR. I was thinking of swapping them into the master as a test. But the fitting on the master is smaller. This brings me to my last issue.



Problem 3: Master Bed Radiator Slight Gong Sounds

I included images of the radiator and piping. Looks like someone used a bunch of piping to rotate the radiator 90 deg. I added an extra 2x6 on top of the paver brick(?) to lift the pipes to hopefully eliminate any sag. Didn't work. Lowered the vent on the ventrite #1 to 2.5. Helped a bit. But if you look closely at where the valve goes into the radiator, it seems like it could trap a whole lot of water due to the drastic change in pipe size. Could this be my issue? How hard is it to change that large plug? As mentioned in problem #2 I'd like to try a larger radiator.



I apologize for the very long post. I can separate them into 3 posts if anyone thinks it is helpful. The reason I am now more concerned with the temperature of the house is because I just brought home a new born saturday, and I don't want her to freeze her little butt off. Thank you for your help!

Mark N

CPH setting

1 cph is the proper setting for a steam system. 6 cph is for forced air and 3 cph is for hot water. If you have fast steam distribution you may be able to get away with 2cph.

Mark N

Cold Room

Can you get a pro in to look at your system? Is your boiler oversized, maybe you can add more radiators to you system. Is your bedroom on the first floor with access to the steam mains? Get a pro and get this right.

McSwiggin

A Pro

Hi Mark,

I had apro (found on here) come in but they were only interested in my near boilerpiping. They didn't even run the system. So I'm looking for suggestions from others for what to try. I'm fairly mechanical having worked on cars most of mylife, so I'm not afraid of some of the work. But hesitate on some of the work during heating season cause I can't be without heat.

Steve_175

Inspect the house

I think it would be worth your while to have a home inspector check your house with an inferred camera. I suspect you have some energy loss issues on top of radiator problems. There are some state programs that will come to your home and do a free energy audit which includes a inferred camera.

Mark N

Lost Art

Pick up a copy of The Lost Art of Steam Heat. Everything you would need to know is contained within. My dad was a steam fitter I know what is involved with threading and cutting pipe. Have you ever done it? Your bedroom is under radiated. Might be easier to do a separate hot water zone to heat your bedroom. Do a site search on Condensate Hot water Heating. Read the article. This is best done with a heat exchanger. If you have access to your steam main and excess capacity you might be able to add a radiator to your bedroom from the main. The piping needs to be properly sized to support the rad you need to meet the heat loss of the room.

McSwiggin

Lost Art and Inspection

Thank you for the reply's. I have had an energy audit done on the house. They air sealed the attic as well as basement, and I put down a 2x8 floor on top of my attic so I can get additional insulation put in. There were R13 batts up there, I just filled each cavity up with blown in insulation. I'm going to get another energy audit this winter, maybe they'll find more air sealing needs. I am also, longer term, going to look into adding 4-6" of foam board to the outside of the house, as well as air seal it from the outside. I'm worried about moisture and the windows looking funny though, so more research is needed.



I have a copy of "Lost Art", as well as two other of his books. I haven't made it all the way through the book though. So far it's looking like a bigger radiator is better. My boiler has an IBR rating of 97500, the rating for all my radiators is 86640 BTU/hr, so I have a little room for expansion.



Thanks for the idea regarding condensate heat exchangers, I'll give that some consideration.



Any other thoughts regarding the radiators and thermostat? I was considering adding a vent right before my radiator to get the steam there quickly so it would be on longer and therefore make the room warmer.

Steve_175

What vent is on the rad now?

Put a faster vent on the rad like a Groton #6 or C

SWEI

Is this a single pipe system?

If so, you need an eccentric reducer there.

McSwiggin

Venting and Reducer

I have a vent rite #1 set to 2.5ish. If I go much higher, than the radiator makes a lot of noise, which isn't pleasant when we're trying to sleep. My theory is because it condenses too fast in the radiator. So if I vent the line quickly, then the radiator, then the radiator should be on longer getting hotter making the room warmer.



Are the reducers just standard pipe fitting reducers? This particular one has been painted over, so I don't think I want to attempt to remove it unless I have a spare radiator. Unless they are easily removed. Are they easy to take off?

Steve_175

Other I issues

Do you have adequate main venting?

Your boiler could be running at to high a pressure. What is your pressuretrol set at?

Faster vents will not make a radiator noisier if the rest of the system is set up correctly.

Also not all vents operate the same way.

Mark N

Bigger Rad

Is the pipe that is feeding that rad 1" pipe? Is the valve also a 1" valve? You can try a bigger rad not sure how big without looking it up. My Bedroom is 12x18 and has 2 rads. One is 48 sqft EDR and the other is 16 sqft EDR. Your room is larger than mine. You are definitely under radiated.

McSwiggin

Main Venting

This year I replaced the older main vents that were on the system with Gorton #2's. They are more than enough for my system. I think each line that the vents are on only calculated out to 0.5 cubic ft of steam. So they should be vented in about 15 seconds I think. Although, my return lines are not set up properly, so they could be shorting each other, meaning one line is venting quickly, then shutting off the other line. Since both are pretty much the same volume, I'm not sure how likely that is.



My pressuretrol is at 0.5 and 1psi delta. It does not shut the system off, the heating demand is met before the pressuretrol turns the steam off.



The lines and valves are 1" going to that radiator. I have no idea why they made it so small. I think all the other rooms on the 2nd floor are 1.25".

Mark N

Cold Room

The easiest thing to do is probably just add an electric heater. Adding another riser or adding a hot water loop are big jobs since the room is on the second floor.