new home owner from philadelphia

viali8

hello all,



I just purchased my first home here in philadelpia.  It is a great old house but also has steam heat.  I could fire off a ton of questions but want to continue reading through the forum as I am sure I will find some more answers on here.  I already found out that the new boiler installed by the previous owner was done incorrectly..,it was installed with some copper pipes :(



But I do have one question before I continue reading...can anyone recommend a reputable guy who knows about steam systems in the philadelphia area?

ChrisJ

Jstar

Absolutely.

Thatcher heating and cooling.

http://ecuacool.net/

They recently changed their name to Thatcher heating and cooling so don't be confused by the different url.  They are one of the best in the country and I believe will do your area.

Jim Pompetti

Contractor

Look in find a contractor

nicholas bonham-carter

While you are waiting for the pro.........

Tell us about any problems the system may have. Is it 1-pipe or 2-pipe.

Is it uneven, or noisy, or are you just wanting to be proactive, and identify any potential issues before they become major?

If you are lucky enough to have Jstar look at your system, you will be in good hands.

Do a search for his name and see if you can judge him by his postings here.--NBC

vaporvac

right in your neck of the woods...

It looks like Jim is only a few miles from you...what a problem to have: two wallies fairly nearby. I'm patiiently waiting to see if one will pay me a visit!

viali8

single pipe system

Thanks for the reply guys!



I have a single pipe system.  A new utica PEG E series was installed in preparation for selling the house.  I had nothing to do with the install.  When I went to see the house there was a leak in the piping near to the boiler.  Little did I know at the time that copper was not to be used for near boiler piping.  My realtor recommended a heating guy and I had him come out to take a look at it.  He did mention any thing about the copper piping!  Therefore I am assuming he is not familiar with the steam heat system.  As I have been reading more and more I think the install was not done correctly.



Here are some of my symptoms:



water hammer

water in some of the radiators

uneven heat

leak in the copper pipe



I was able to find an installation guide on utica's website.  I compared the pics in the installation guide with my boiler and I do not think it was installed correctly.  I have reached out to Jstar last night and he responded promptly.  I am still waiting to hear back from him.  I hope he can come down and take a look at my system.



Regards

Matt

ALIGA

Post some pics of your boiler

You are in good hands with jstar

vaporvac

Pics?

Could you post some pics getting as wide a shot as possible and from a few different angles. Plus, some close-ups of the controls and pressure gauges Quite a few things could cause the symptoms you describe, from too high a pressure to mis-pitched pipes and bad venting either on the mains or rads themselves. A few pics might help clarify. Also, when do you get the clanging...at the beginning of the cycle, middle or end?

viali8

one pipe steam system

Vaporvac,



I get the clanging in the beginning of the heat cycle. I will get some pics as soon as I can.  My camera phone hasn't been working well recently.  Fingers crossed.



Thanks

Matt

viali8

here some pics

here are some pics of the boiler.  Bad news is I don't think it is installed properly and it was done with copper...good news is that Jstar is coming over take a look at it next week.

Steamhead

Where to start?

I see a bunch of issues right off. But if JStar is coming, he'll get you straightened out. 

SWEI

Just for fun

I started making a list.  Keep in mind that while I'm pretty good with hot water, I have limited steam experience.



Clearly wrong:

Copper steam pipe.

Missing riser from second boiler tapping.

Insufficient "A" dimension.

No piping from PRV outlet.



Possibly wrong:

Improper Hartford loop (can't see thanks to camera angle.)

Undersized header piping.

Not sure what the skinny copper line leaving the header is (Pressuretrol?)



Whatever the issues, Joe will set you straight.

ChrisJ

draft hood

Besides the horrible steam piping, are there two draft hoods!?!?!

Hap_Hazzard

Draft Hoods

Yes, there are two of them. So the vent damper (if that's what I'm seeing) isn't doing much good.

ChrisJ

Amazing

This might win the "piped wrong" award. Not only is the steam piping wrong but they somehow managed to mess up the flue as well. Can't blame that on someone that only knows hot water systems.



Obviously done by someone who had no business touching any heating system.

viali8

piped incorrectly

Thanks for the feedback guys.  I figured that this was not installed correctly.  Ignorance is expensive...when I went to go see the house I knew zilch about steam heat.  If I knew what I know now I would have had the seller give me a credit...anyway it needs be taken care of. JStar is coming out next week so I hope he can help me out.



That skinny copper pipe coming from the header is for the automatic water feeder.  Should it be there?



Thanks

Matt

SWEI

Automatic water feeder

definitely not!

viali8

bad piping

I have been using he boiler like this for a couple weeks.  it still produces some heat.  Jstar isn't coming until next Monday.  Do you think I am doing serious damage to the boiler by using it when its piped the way it is.  I have the temp. set at 55 during the day and 63 when I get home in the evening.  Should I shut it off and spend time at a relatives house until Jstar comes over?



Thanks

Matt

BobC

nothing will happen

that hasn't happened so far. Steam systems are rugged and the question is how much harm has been done in the years since that was installed. Anything from now till next week is inconsequential.



Let it do it's best to warm the place up.



Bob

viali8

sounds good

The boiler was installed right before I moved into the house.  Not more than 4 weeks ago.  Actually the boiler wasn't even used as the previous owner moved to Oregon and had someone install a new boiler in preparation to sell the house.

Unknown

hope you

Hope u can go after the installer and make them pay for the repiping job.. that installer have no business of installing boilers.

todd_ecr

IOM

I've attached our IOM for the PEG-E steam boilers.  Pages 10-11 show the near boiler piping diagrams.

It makes me cringe to think of what might be happening when that water feeder kicks in...

viali8

thanks!

Thanks for the PDF file!   I am no genius but my the way my boiler is piped is not even close to what it looks like in the diagram.  Damn this pisses me off....the screwed up thing is that my realtor recommended a few guys to take a look at the boiler.  I contacted one of them and obviously received bogus information.  No I have to pay for it

Unknown

keep

Keep bugging the Realtor... give him or her guilt trip for having you go thru major expenses by having these kunkleheads check out ur system..

JStar

Steam

Those pictures are so hard to look at. So many issues....



All realtors have a crew of goonies to do their assessment work done quick and cheap just to sell the house (in fact, we do this type of work for several realtors). But, I would be upset about this, too.



Steamhead always says that you can't fix stupid, but you can certainly fix stupid work. Not all is lost....as long as the boiler is the right size.

viali8

steam

I will confirm what model the boiler is.  I am pretty sure I can access some PDf files from the Utica website with some helpful information. 



Thanks

Matt

JStar

Update

Well, this mess was finally cleaned up today.



We replaced all of the piping. Corrected the bad venting connections. Added a massive amount of main vents. And installed a 2-stage GCV with Vaporstat to run on High/Low. After firing, the 60-70ft main was hot in under 5 minutes.

Steamhead

Now that's some nice work

but we shouldn't be surprised, should we?



JStar, what turn-down are you using on that 2-stage valve?

JStar

Gas Valve

Low Fire is 60%. It is non-adjustable as far as the manufacturer says. Though, I'm sure there is a way to adjust it with a new spring under the Low Fire solenoid valve. However, 60% seems ideal for steam because Low Fire almost always matches the connected EDR load.

jonny88

nice install as always

one question about venting.Is it ok to wye the venting for both units or should they have seperate penetrations.I get a lot of conflicting answers.Thanks .

Hap_Hazzard

Nice job!

Everything looks great, but I especially like the header. You are a genius when it comes to designing effective headers in cramped spaces.