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Hot water storage tank

Hello,



Now that I have my boiler up and running with help from you guys. We are running out of hot water after a tub an shower. 3 kids its just not keeping up.



I have my electric water heater and jar tea the threads that icesailor has posted about don't this.



The boiler is a peerless wbv-03 an the water heater is a 40 gal ge electric that I plan on using a bronze pump on.



Also if I set the thermostat at 140 on the tank and the coil is putting out 180 water will I need a thermostatic mixing valve? The water should come out of the storage tank at 140 then right



I was wondering if there is a maximum distance from the boiler that would make it not work as well. I will have about 20 feet of pipe between the boiler hot water coil and the storage tank. I plan on piping it in 3/4 pex

Comments

  • Hydronicz
    Hydronicz Member Posts: 12
    I would

    Put a larger storage tank in or add a tempering valve on the hot water outlet on storage tank, this way you can turn the aquistat up higher on the tank thus giving you more hot water after it mixes. I prefer keeping the tank close to the coil as possible or insulate the lines to keep the heat in.
  • dalipaintedme
    dalipaintedme Member Posts: 17
    I figured

    The closer the better, but my boiler is in a closet in the kitchen and I wanted to put the water tank ünder a staircase that would require 10-20 feed of pipe.



    Slab house so it will be going through the ceiling (insulated)



    1/2 copper or 3/4 pex?
  • Weezbo
    Weezbo Member Posts: 6,232
    3/4" pex

    and add 1/2 ips to 3/4 copper fittings near boiler at coil.

    come away from there with plenty of 3/4" copper so that you can add some 3/4" t's with a boiler drain valve on each side /S & R of coil that can be valved off to clean the coil from time to time .

    having some unions near by helps also in the event that a coil needs to be replaced.

    removing the bolts and replacing them one at a time with stainless steel thru bolts ,wide washers and brass nuts also well worth the time and effort now .



    the tempering valve could go after a take off on the hot water side of your water heater for higher temp wate for the kitchen sink ...



    foam insulation is cheap enough to insulate the hot from the coil to the cold of the water heater .

    best thing too is keep the pex 24" or so away from the boiler or water heater using copper coming away from the both .

    Good going. !

    Weezbo

    *~//: )
  • JohnNY
    JohnNY Member Posts: 3,226
    pipe diameter

    ¾" pipe only carries ~40,000 BTUs, while 1" carries ~70,000.

    I'd go with 1" from boiler to storage tank.
    Contact John "JohnNY" Cataneo, NYC Master Plumber, Lic 1784
    Consulting & Troubleshooting
    Heating in NYC or NJ.
    Classes
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Hot Water:

    If your new boiler doesn't have a tank-less coil in it, you need to buy a coil and install it f there's an opening in it and get a new control. Before that, you shouldn't be running out of hot water as fast as you do with a 40 gallon electric. Is the bottom element working and is it wired properly? You MUST use a "Amp-Clamp Amp Meter on the wiring to the elements to be sure they are working. Just because you have 220 volts, does not mean they are drawing amperage. Make sure that BOTH thermostats are set at a minimum of 125 degrees. If you have single lever shower faucets that are modern, set the limit stops and you can boost the bottom element to 130 degrees but do that only as a last resort. What is the size of the electric service in the house? What size is the circuit breaker to the water heater? If it is 30 Amps, are the water heater elements 4500 Watts or 3300 Watts. If they are 3300 Watts and on a 20 Amp breaker, leave them alone and don't change them. Remember, a 4500 watt water heater element will recover 18 gallons per hour. If you are able and do connect to a tank-less coil (which is just a Indirect Coil in a different location) and the coil is rated at 4 GPM but for reasonable discussion, it produces 2 GPM, that's 120 Gallons Per Hour, recovery.

    If you choose to connect a tank-less, I would prefer copper but reality bites. Because of the distance, I'd use PEX if I had to for the long runs. Copper at both ends. You need it anyway. Unless I can find the perfect coil for PEX to go around, I always used straight lengths. Easier to hang and easier on the professional eye. I hate fighting coils that won't ever stay where I want them.

    Check the water heater for correct operation though. Unless you have a teenage daughter that has long hair and takes long showers, you shouldn't run out. Also, if you haven't already done so, get a new shower head and leave the flow restrictors in unless you have pathetic water pressure. They might squawk at first but they'll get used to it.
  • dalipaintedme
    dalipaintedme Member Posts: 17
    sorry

    i should of have mentioned that the boiler installed was a used model from a friend that switched to gas. It has a coil.

    the electric we used for the time when we had no boiler, for DHW during the summer.



    I don't want to continue using the electric element because it was way to expensive to make hot water with electric.

    so I wanted to do the storage tank
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
    Electric Elements:

    You DO NOT use the electric elements to heat the water. You only use the bottom thermostat to act as a switch leg to turn the circulator on and off. It is normally connected to the burner circuit and uses only as much power as a Taco 006 Stainless circulator or equivalent uses. As of January 4, 2014, it is illegal to use a bronze pump unless it is a low or no lead bronze pump.
  • Patchogue Phil_2
    Patchogue Phil_2 Member Posts: 304
    coil

    The hot water coil inside the boiler is most likely only 1/2 inch connections for domestic HW.  More than 1/2" copper to feed the storage tank is wasted.  PEX at 1/2" might be smaller internally.



    If the boiler temp is set to 180*,  you will not see 180* water from the output of the internal coil. It will be much less.  Especially on an older used boiler.
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    3/4" lines to the indirect coil

    are a good idea.  More footage of 1/2" will just increase resistance even further.



    I would not recommend PEX before the tempering valve as the water in that coil can easily exceed 190ºF.