Piping dillema in tight space - tee vs elbow

djohn

So I finally got to work on the Knight installation. Planned to keep it simple in the planning stage (always try to keep boiler piping as short as possible) but because of lack of space I have to keep it even more simple :)



Single pump (alpha), 3 zone valve system. No mixing. All piping is so short I am using brass fittings and nipples.



Lochinvar wants circulator pumping into the boiler on the return side, so on return my main 2 components are Y-strainer and then a pump.



On the supply side, it's the vortech air separator with pressure tank under and tee'd makeup water through dual valve.



Because of little space I have, where pipe comes out of a circulator and would turn up to the boiler (where I would normally use an elbow), this time I would want to use a tee. Water coming from the run side, exiting on the bull side, both 1". On the opposite run side, 3/4" to another 3/4" tee with temp/pressure gauge and boiler drain. (because of flow check, boiler drain has to be between the pump and boiler)



Then, on the supply side, once the water gets out of the vortech air eliminator, I would have the same thing": 1" in, 1" bull and 3/4" into another 3/4" tee with gauge and drain.



And finally, I was really tempted to use bullheaded tees, but managed to piece it together with no BH tees on supply and usual setup on return side (water coming in on bull and run side, exiting through run side)



So any opinions about tees used as elbows?

hot_rod

sized properly

so you have 2-4fps velocities and you will be fine.



If space is tight consider a multi purpose device like an air/ dirt/ magnetic separator. It replaces 2 or 3 devices in the piping circuit.

djohn

pics

Picture is worth a 1000 words - should have attached them from the beginning

These are reducing tees (and I was sent wrong ones, unfortunately) and union in the 1st picture (return) is right on the boiler. On 2nd picture (supply) you can see the valve - above it there is a short nipple, union and boiler.



2nd option would be flow into a bullhead (but no flow in 2 opposite run directions - no idea if that would be against the code) - this way tee would be turned vertically and the 3/4" tee would have drain on the bottom. Would that flow better?



Also, Grundfos didn't have any specifics and I have seen installations even tighter than this - is there required straight run length before and after the pump?



Hey Bob, BTW I am pretty impressed with Caleffi manifold. Solid piece of brass. One big drawback though. Nothing lines up in any other orientation than factory, due to bracket limitations. Hookup can't be on the right and it can't be mixed (one left and one right). Both have to be on the left.

hot_rod

it will work fine

it is nice to have some piping distance before and after the pump, air sep, etc but it will work the way you have it piped.



There are a number of pre-packaged zoning control boxes and panels where the components are plumbed tight like that.



As for the manifold, we can build them with either side S&R, at your request. We assemble and leak test everyone in Milwaukee. You can change the S&R at the jobsite if you need, we lose control of our test assurance, is one concern.



We have special soft jaw vices so we don't mark the brass when we assemble them, also. Hate to see a pipe wrench used on the job site to change them.

djohn

tees

Trying to find some flow/pressure info on tees with plugged run and oriented horizontally vs vertically. That would solve my dilemma and let me put it together finally, hehe.



I know they are assembled here in WI. One of the reasons I got it. I live couple hours west

The way I have it now, 2nd and 3rd manifold will stay in factory position.



Ah, also word for R&R - them little black rubber bumpers on brackets are really crappy. Half of them just fell off (peg broke off the pad) when I took it apart. Super glue to the rescue



Might want to consider making brackets with adjustable angles (bolt vs weld) so S&R could be installed in any position or spread.



BTW, it looked like nothing would have to be taken apart as your valve bodies have gauge wells on both sides. Union joint likely has to be at least loosened during normal install process - at least in some cases.

djohn

length equivalent

Per Siggy's book (also Idronics and other places I looked), side port (bull) on 1" tee is equivalent to 4.5ft of 1" pipe, whether straight port (run) is just 0.45ft.



And then regular elbow is 2.5ft.



But, does it mean that if the tee is plugged (no flow - just a drain and gauge on reduced port), above numbers apply too? I think they apply to side port or straight entry and straight exit. Please correct me if I am wrong.



So current options are:

1. Setup as on pictures, water coming into the straight port, exiting on side port.

vs.

2. Water coming into the side port, exiting on the straight port (tees vertically)

vs

3. Using an elbow and straight through tee, with gauge and drain on the side port (tees vertically)



Option 1 is currently pieced together. Option 2 requires use of street elbow for gauge (little $ more). Option 3 requires more changes into entire piping design because of space. Total redo on the supply side. Not looking forward to it.

SWEI

Field reconfiguration

Jorgensen clamp?