What should I do next?

McSwiggin

It seems to me that my next step should be to just replace the main vents, though I have no idea how well my current vents are working. It just seems like the general opinion is to just over vent.



I calculated the volume in my vents and found that main #1 is 0.46 cubic feet, and main #2 is 0.51 cubic feet (see pipe schematic to see pipe runs, main volume was calculated using the shortest distance from the boiler to the vents). Gorton #2's would be overkill, but are pretty much the same cost as other valves, so why not. But, if you look at my other schematic, showing the return path from the vents to the boiler, you'll notice that my returns meet when dry. So I have a few questions:



1. should I bother to replace the vents

2. should I worry about short circuiting due to the mains meeting dry, if so, should I fix before or after adding bigger vents?

3. You'll notice too that my hartford loop is at the water level when my sight glass is 3/4 full. What penalty am I paying for that? Should I fix that while I'm in there? Actually, I think this means that my A dimension is only a few inches, so the boiler should be able to clear that loop, but I can't figure out what the harm is because it will never back all the way up the mains.



I'm thinking I should start by just throwing larger vents on there and see what happens, but wanted others opinions.



The problem I am trying to fix is how expensive this boiler is to run. I did find, in a stack of papers from the original owners, a letter they wrote to the original installer, in 1984, complaining that this new boiler was using more energy than their previous boiler. So I am thinking there is room for improvement.



Also, if anyone has installation instructions for a peerless G-561-SW I'd like to look at it. I have the original owners manual, but not installation manual. I didn't find anything through google, or searching the wall using: "G-561".



I did a ballpark measurement of the radiator EDR values and found it to be 361, converted to BTU that is 86,640. My boiler IBR rating is 97,500. So I think that it is sized properly, just not working as well as it could.



Thanks for all your help!

BobC

Returns

If your dry returns are tied together above the waterline that is not good, has it always been like this or does it look like a recent fix?



On the vents I agree that the cost of a Gorton #2 and the Hoffman #75 are about the same so why not go with the bigger vent. If you want to save a buck use 2ea Gorton #1's on each main for a combined 0.66 CFM.



Bob

McSwiggin

Dry returns

Good question Bob. They are definitely connected above the water line. I honestly have no idea if it was a recent fix or if it was original to the boiler installation, as I have only been in the house for a year. I can only assume that it is original to the installation.



So should I over vent and fix the returns? While I'm at it would it be worth it to fix the hartford loop at the same time? Or just change the vents and fix the returns in the spring?



I also just read up on my thermostat and learned that it is programmed to use 6 cycles per hour. I just reduced it to 3, but won't notice any heating effects until I get home tomorrow night. I'm actually considering putting it back to 6 and changing it when I am home to see if any issues show up (like if my pressuretrol actually works or not).

BobC

What next?

More venting on mains is never a bad thing and you won't know if less is enough unless.you measure the venting back pressure (= < 2oz). Install new vents now and if they are at the very end of a main I go up as far as possible and then over 12 to 18" to protect the new vents from any water slugs.



The short circuited returns will make balancing the system difficult, if your having balancing problems now more venting won't help much - but it will still reduce fuel use.



If the Hartford loop placement isn't causing hammering or wild level problems it can be dealt with at your leisure.



If I had the choice I would fix the short circuited returns and install new vents now. That said, you never know what problems you will run into with old pipes so be prepared to do more than you hoped for. Are you doing the work yourself?



Bob

McSwiggin

To do list

Thanks Bob. I'm considering doing the work myself since I can probably find pipes that are the correct length at the plumbing supply store. If I have to thread new pipes I can see if the maintenance department here at work could thread a few. I'm expecting the work to be like working on anything else, it's NEVER as easy as it seems.



Just ordered the 2 main vents (Gorton #2's). Thanks for the advice on moving them back 12-18", I'll do that. Venting the third line will be a challenge, but I'm not sure I care right now because it is only for 1 radiator and I don't use that room for anything but storage.



If I choose to do the work myself, any advice on how to route the returns? I was thinking I want to drop them right before the hartford loop so that I do not have a long wet return that could potentially flood the boiler if I get an over pressure. Thoughts?



Any experience with the benefits of changing my thermostat from 6 cycles per hour to 1 or 3 per hour?

BobC

Pitch

When you move the vents back using a couple of 90's make sure you have some slope so water can find it's way back to the returns. use a level to be sure you have pitch, I left the extension uninsulated on mine to keep those vents (Gorton #1 and a MOM #1) open as long as possible. As for dropping the returns just do it where it is convenient and use a T on the end one with a full port valve so it will be easy to flush them out when you have to.



If your concerned about possible overpressure, add a second pressuretrol on a pigtail set up to trip a little higher than the one on the boiler now. If you can find a different boiler tapping so you can eliminate the possibility of a plugged pigtail making the whole exercise moot. The chance of two pigtails plugging at the same time is just about ziltch.



have fun,



Bob

McSwiggin

flushing

Thanks for the pic Bob! I'll do that once I get the vents in hand. I'll search this site for a schematic showing where the valves should go for flushing the returns as well. Thanks!