riser vents to help heat our coldest line?

Eliz

Hi all, I'm in a self-managed 5-story coop (with 20 1BR units) in Brooklyn. In 2006 we replaced/repiped our boiler, added roof insulation, changed out our mains venting strategy, and did a really great job balancing our single-pipe steam system. The upshot is that 18 of the 20 units are happy. However, the top 2 units on the line furthest from the boiler are cold. Besides the distance from the boiler, the 4th and 5th floor apartments on this line have the added challenge of shaded exposure on two sides. (The bottom three units are not exposed and consequently more comfortable.)



I'm considering adding vents to the risers in the 4th floor apartment, assuming that this could help pull steam to this line more quickly without messing up the balance we've achieved on the rest of the system. Unfortunately, the fellow we worked with in 2006 is no longer with his company, and we're at a bit of a loss finding folks who know steam and want to work on a small job like this.



Any thoughts? Questions? Thanks in advance!



eliz

nicholas bonham-carter

While you are looking for the steam pro

Try putting a Gorton D, on the rads at the top of the riser, and see if that makes a difference.

You may still have to have them installed on the riser itself, but this will show you if you are on the right track.

What sort of boiler control do you have?--NBC

JStar

Steam

We service Brooklyn. Call or email any time.



732-494-4357

j.starosielec@ecuacool.com





You can definitely add riser vents to help those top floors. You'll need to know the exact length of the riser and have a good spot to install them.

STEAM DOCTOR

cold

Good morning. Are the rooms cold or are the radiators cold? The radiators should all get hot at relatively the same time. If thats happening and the rooms are still cold, then there are probably issues not directly related to the heating system

ALIGA

try the following

take off the radiator air valves, and see if that helps bring the steam to the rads.

Eliz

thanks!

All good advice — thank you!



We have a US Energy heat timer, with the thermostats in the 4 top-floor apartment and one in a lower apartment as a control. This keeps records that I can access online, so I can see that this line runs about 2-5 degrees cooler.



Good question about whether the radiators get fully warm. Once we are into colder weather and the system is actually running, I'll check this.



We do have Gorton D's on those radiators. Is it wise to run the boiler with an open vent? Sounds dangerous — but could be a good way to check how opening up affects the system.



best,

eliz

JohnNY

Brooklyn

Eliz,

I'm only 44 but I've been working on Brooklyn and NYC heating systems for something like 30 years. This was Dad's company first.



WhenI hear about just top floor apartments being incongruous with the heating characteristics of a building, I stop guessing at the problem. You need someone to come and take a look. Lots of things happen in top floor apartments that can't happen elsewhere in the building: People install skylights, remove riser vents, have drafty roof access hatches, exposure issues, etc. Very often, the problem on the top floor is a building envelope issue and not an issue with the heating system.

I'm not saying I know anything for sure about your situation, it could very well be that there's a problem with your heating system, but look at the thermal image picture below.

This is a client with an exposed top level of a 5-story building. The adjacent buildings are both 4 stories. The insulation contractor they hired did a terrible job of insulating the walls and they're left with this giant cold section that always makes the apartment feel cold. The yellow sections are well insulated and holding in the heat while the darker, purple sections are allowing the heat to pass right through and leave a cold wall behind.



There are lots of things to look for, including evaluating the compatibility of the boiler to the potential of the system, so my advice is to call someone like JStar or me to come out and have a look, but everyone's got to keep an open mind.



To answer an inevitable question: I do charge for the evaluation service. Not sure if JStar does.