New Boiler - Oil Smell from Radiators

JerseyFour

We just had a Weil-McLain boiler installed (EG & PEG Series 5). It came on for the first time early in the morning (several days ago), and a strong smell filled our bedrooms. When my 3-year old daughter came to hug me, her hair reeked of it - a chemical/oil smell. The smell persisted, so we asked the man who installed the boiler to check it out. He said it was from the new valves on the radiators (Gorton Vapor Equalizing Valves), and that it would go away. It didn't! He then instructed my husband to drain some water from near the bottom of the boiler. That water was yucky, grey and had the same oil smell. The boiler was skimmed once at installation. Is this yucky water going into our steam system? Could the boiler need more skimming? Help!

BobC

Needs to be skimmed

Newly installed boilers have to be skimmed to remove oils that coat new boilers and pipes. I your case I would drain the boiler after a couple of days use and refill it (don't refill unless the boiler is cold or just warm). Bring the new water up to steam to drive off any oxygen in the new water.



Now the boiler is ready to be skimmed, the installer should have installed a skim port for you, if he did not tell him to do so. To skim you open the skim port and then you open the water feed valve to feed water VERY SLOWLY. You want to gently float the oil that is riding n the surface of the water nice and slow. It should take a few hours to skim 5 gallons worth and you will probably have to do it several times over the next few weeks.



You can skim cold or hot but DO NOT ALLOW THE WATER TO COME TO A BOIL - you want the surface of the boiler water as calm as possible so you can draw the oils off it. When you finish the skim session, run the boiler up to steam after closing the skim port to drive off any oxygen brought in with the fresh water.



Bob

JerseyFour

Thank you!

Thank you, Bob! For both the info and the thorough instructions. A skim port was not installed - we'll have him do so. After this next skim, how will we know if it needs to be skimmed again? Smell, or should we just expect that it will be needed & go ahead and skim a few more times? Again, THANK YOU - so helpful!

BobC

You will know when to skim

Boilers need to be skimmed when you notice a dancing waterline in the sight glass or start to hear banging or other strange noises coming from the boiler or piping. The smell you experiencing is because you have a lot of oil in that water right now and a new boiler will have a certain odor when it's first operated.



Did they install main vents on the steam mains when they replaced the boiler? vents on the radiators are only meant to vent the air in the radiators and the pipe that connects it to the steam main. main air vents will allow the air in the mains and boiler to be vented quickly so the radiators get steam and all heat up at the same time.



Bob

JerseyFour

I think so!

I see two vents down there - but I'm still figuring out exactly what they're attached to. (Picture me, clutching my copy of Dan's book, WE GOT STEAM HEAT and scratching my head). I attached a few photos of the boiler and those vents.



And thanks for the additional skimming guidance too! It's a huge help.

JerseyFour

Oops!

The photos posted sideways and the the close-up of the vents is upside-down!

Rod

Skimming

Hi - No problem with the pictures. I just had my wife hold the monitor upside down!



On the skimming- I found it helps to heat the water up till it's hot, shut off the burner and skim a while. When the boiler water cools down, restart the burner, heat the water till it's hot again, shut off the burner and repeat the cycle.   I've found that with the burner on, the surface of the water "churns " from the convection currents caused by having the burner /heat on. If you skim while the burner is off, the water surface is calm and not  disturbed. I would guess how bad the churning is, depends a lot of the make /model boiler you have. You may have to skill a number of times as the oil and contaminates work their way out of the system. ( I skimmed for 5 Saturday mornings before my waterline finally settled down.) Skim very slowly seems to work best.  Quite often a new boiler may produce steam more efficiently than the old boiler so it's like it's steam cleaning the system.

- Rod

BobC

I'm suspicious

What make and model is that boiler? Do you know what the EDR (sq ft of radiator surface) of all your radiators is?



I ask because it looks like the installer came out of the boiler with a 4"(?) pipe and then reduced it down to 2" for the rest of the riser and header. That is a good recipe for wet steam and an unhappy heating system. The job of the boiler riser and header is to dry out the steam; that setup will not produce dry steam.



It looks like your main vents are Gorton #1's. How long are the steam mains and what size pipe?



Bob

JerseyFour

Oh dear!

It's a Weil-McLain EG/PEG-35 Series 5. As far as the EDR, I don't know. I know the installer measured the radiators - we may have it written somewhere.



As for the length of the steam mains, I'm gonna have to go down to the basement with my tape measure! I'm a complete novice here!



I'm attaching some (I hope) clearer pictures.



Again - Thank you!

JerseyFour

Gas not oil

I should add that this is a gas powered boiler, not oil. We just switched from oil to gas. Does that make a difference in terms of skimming needs?



Ever grateful!



Jennifer

BobC

It looks bigger

I pulled the manual for that boiler (PEG35) and it states a 2" riser and header is ok so although your setup is a little unusual it is probably ok - IF that boiler is really a PEG 35. In your picture it just looks like a larger boiler, did you pull the model number from the boiler nameplate?.



How many radiators do you have in your house? Get the skim port installed and let us know how it all turns out.



Bob

JerseyFour

Uh-oh

Bob - thank you so much for looking up the manual! It is definitely the EG/PEG-35 Series 5. I got the number from the sticker on the boiler.



We had the guy who installed it come over to skim. When he first arrived he offered to put sodium carbonate in the boiler - and said it smelled like lemon. We didn't know if that was good or bad, so asked him again to skim.



He did it good-naturedly, but shook his head and said that in 35 years he had never had anyone ask to skim. The boiler was stone cold when he came, as we had shut it off (due to warm weather and bewilderment). He had to remove the pressuretrol to skim. He told us he couldn't install a skim port. The water he skimmed came out clear (from what my husband could see). He drained the boiler and that water looked clear too. He was at our house for about 20 minutes.



I'm a newbie here, and I know that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! Was the skimming do e properly? What he did doesn't seem to be the same as what has been suggested in these threads.



Today we turned the boiler back on, and it still smells. The alarming thing is that the water in the sight glass is so dark gray that we couldn't even determine the water level! We took a flashlight to it and could (barely!) see that it's on the lower level of ok.



On the positive side, the system is quiet so far.



What to do? My instinct says to ditch this guy and call in someone else.



Thanks for your guidance!

JerseyFour

O

JerseyFour

More help

Thanks for your reply, Rod! I've posted more pictures too. Please see the update above.

Rod

Skim Port

Hi- Attached is the bottom part of Table 15 on page 34 in your boiler's I&O manual.

As you can see there is a specific port for a Skim Port. Obviously in 35 years your installer hasn't read Page 22 in the manual regarding skimming. Maybe the poor fellow can't read?!

- Rod

Edit:

Below are two photos- One is of your boiler showing the cabinet opening where the skim port would be attached and the second shows several skim port setups. The picture with the 2 pressure gauges is the same model as your boiler.

 I would strongly second Bob C's recommendation about a plug or cap for safety sake against accidental valve opening especially if children might have access to the boiler area. You will notice that all the skimports in the second photo have a plug or cap.

BobC

Skimming takes time

Proper skimming takes hours and it may take several sessions to get everything cleaned out. This link will take you to the Peerless method (towards the bottom of the first page) but it applies to any steam boiler.



http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/posts/10355/Info%20on%20Skimming.pdf



They talk about adding washing soda but you should be able to do ok just by SLOWLY floating water out of the skimming port - the key is that it has to be done VERY slow so you don't disturb the surface of the water. The water should just trickle out. I would skim cold first (after boiled had been off for hours so everything was very still; then you could turn the boiler on to heat the water while you skim but do not bring it to a boil because that will just mix the oil in with the water.



Rod has already given you the diagram that shows where the skim port on your boiler is, that port has to be opened and a pipe and ball valve installed there. My installer put in the pipe and valve at my insistence, i later put in a threaded plug to prevent anyone from opening up that valve while the boiler was making steam - that could lead to some VERY bad language.



I would get the installer back and have him install the skimming port, you will probably have to do it yourself because it sounds like he has no interest in doing it right.



Bob

JerseyFour

You guys are the best

Rod & BobC,



Thank you thank you thank you for all of this info! Today we got in touch with a fantastic company (who we clearly should have chosen to do our new boiler in the first place. Epic fail.). A very knowledgeable and generous pro showed up and took a look. And a smell! Yup. As you guys knew - the water was full of oil. Lacking a skim port, he spent a long time flushing it out for us. A prince of a guy. (I'd mention the name of the outfit, but I don't think we're supposed to do that on these pages).



We'll have the original installer come back and put in that skim port. Though I suspect you're correct, Bob - it does seem like he has no interest in doing it right. Today's wonderful visiting pro suggested we contact Weil McLain - to express our lack of confidence in our installer - and with the hopes that they can send a guiding force to show him how.



It's great to have the pages in the manual to refer to. Thank you. And such specific skimming reference, too.



You guys are making me want to go to steam school!



THANK YOU for all of this!!!!

BobC

Good news

I'm glad you found a knowledgeable steam pro to help you out, keep his contact info handy. I think you would be doing people a favor by telling what company he represents and where he is.



Let us know how it all works out.



Bob

VA_Bear

Question about the skim port

Question from a tech who rarely sets up steam, but works on it regularly; What port would I use for a top skim port if the manufacturer doesn't specify one? I am dealing with a Crown modular now and the closest port to the NWL is the front or rear electronic low water safety (in this case, a 3/4" tapping). My concern is that this port is very near the minimum water level for burner operation and may risk the boiler's heat exchanger. Would I be better off to overfill the boiler and use a higher tapping (which would also clean more of the jacket, at least in theory)? Thanks for the advice, Dead Heads.

JerseyFour

The Knowledgeable Steam Pro

BobC,



Per your suggestion, the knowlegeable steam pro who came to our rescue was from Ecuacool in New Jersey. Phone number: 732-494-HELP.



They rock!

BobC

Any port

that is just below or above the NWL should work. Larger ports work better than smaller ports but you have to work with what you have.A port highr up works best because you want to get as much of the oil into solution as you can.



The key is to do it SLOWLY, just a trickle.



Bob

Unknown

good thing

Good thing you got the differrent company ... weil mclain would void the warrenty if the boiler was leaky and had oil in the water. I would fire the installer since that not the best pipings job on the boiler.