Plumbing Forum?

vaporvac

I have a non-heating related question so I'm hoping some of the plumbers on this site could suggest a good plumbing forum. I'm hoping for something similar to this site, but I realize that's a tall order. I have a 1914 house with its original plumbing fixtures and would like to have a go myself  before calling anyone in. I've done most of it myself thus far, but I'm stumped.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

There are

a lot of plumbers here.  What's your question?

senior

retired

been plumbing etc. since 1953, Alberta and Utah.

DanHolohan

Would you folks like to add a Plumbing Questions section?

I can do that if you want it.

Henry

Plumbing

Good idea Dan! It would make it easier for all concerned

heatpro02920

Dan How about a Pros section

where we can talk pricing and other topics without non pro input... a pumbing section wouldn't be a bad idea either...

DanHolohan

What defines a pro?

How would I check? 

Steamhead

One idea

for contractors- licensing. Those of us who advertise in Find a Contractor would already have our licensing info in your system, so we would be the "charter members". Anyone else wanting to join would need to submit their licensing info, which in most cases could be checked online, or that they own or work for a company that is licensed. 



Many localities require those in the business to include their licensing info with all communications, invoices, advertisements etc. This would avoid trouble if someone tries to make a case that someone was coming across as a "pro" without including their licensing info.



Then there are non-contractor professionals who we all know, like Tim McElwain, who would be automatically included.

DanHolohan

Considering that it's just me here.

Who does all this checking and vetting? And how does it make the others feel when they're left out of this members-only part of the site. Should we also have a non-pro section, where pros are not allowed. Those folks could also talk about pricing, and which pros they don't like.



I don't want to go there.



I've been at this since '96 and you've been with us since then and you probably remember that we've talked about this a bunch of times in the past. I want the site to be inclusive. We get the most done that way. If people want to talk price they can do so by email. I've seen other sites fall apart when they try to create tribes within tribes.

Robert O'Brien

Plumbing section?

While I understand the different sections concept,I miss the old days of just one Wall,where you never knew what the topics at hand would be. I learned a lot about things I never thought I was interested in!

Steamhead

You're right, of course

but since you asked how one would check, I gave it my best shot ;-)



Personally I've never felt a need for such a section here. I participate in another board which is professionals-only and that one seems to be doing quite well. But there seems to be some interest in it now, as well as some newer members who might not have been around the last time, so maybe this thread will get the pros and cons out where we can all look at them.

bill_105

Whew!

I wish the guy who started this whole thing would just ask the damn question instead of seeking permission:)

heatpro02920

Duly noted, Dan

You are correct, It would be quite the hassle to background check each that wanted to join. I would do it with a timed 20 question test.... All questions only a pipefitter would know, like how many times do you turn a 3/4" fitting with a 24" steel pipe wrench vs the same fitting with an 18" aluminum pipe wrench?

DanHolohan

I couldn't pass that test.

So I'd have to include myself out of that exclusive (and very expensive to develop) section, which is what I'm doing. ;-)



Would you like a section of Plumbing Questions?

vaporvac

Sorry...needed to take a pic!

Sorry Bill. I didn't mean to be annoying. I just like to build the suspense. I wasn't exactly asking permission...I just didn't want to clutter up the board or go off-topic if it wasn't welcome. I posted that late last night and haven't been able to get back to it here at work. However, it's interesting that this has prompted some interest, as I have noticed a smattering of questions concerning plumbing recently.



So my question is this: I have a 1914 Speakman Mixometer mixing valve that feels warm to the touch at all times. It was leaking, but I was able to successfully replace the outer gasketing so it no longer leaks, but that didn't change it feeling hot. However, since replacing the gasket the temp starts warmish, but turns cool within 2-3 minutes. This is NOT the case with any other shower or bath where we have to wait for the hot water, but then have a lot of it. The water pressure also seems less. We generally have a 100psi coming in an 1" pipe, so pressure is never a problem.

The shower has an older waterpik head.

this is a separate tiled shower with NO access panel.



What could be causing these things (hot mixing valve, cool water, lower pressure) and are any of them related? Also, how would I fix them? I have an extra stem for the mixer valve if that would help. (On further thinking, I'm not sure the gasketing has anything to do with the cool water. I don't personally use this shower so it may have done this for a long while.)



Also, I will NOT CONSIDER replacing this as it is part of the original plumbing that has massaging "needles", a hand-held "shampooer" and separate temp and pressure control. Plus, it's really cool. Hope someone can help!!! Colleen



P.S. I'm a gal!

P.P.S. a plumbing section would be great since since so many of the pros are plumbers.

ced48

Yes-

a plumbing section would be great-

bill_105

Why not?

It's those background checks that get tricky!:)

Jack

Based upon a few

of my recent posts, it would certainly be helpful to me;) I came up through the plumbing trade and was a contractor, but not having worked with the tools for a long time, why, things have changed. I would like to see it and will contribute as I can.

DanHolohan

Okay, I'm game.

Just set up the Plumbing section. Have fun! 

vaporvac

Repost???

So, can I keep my question here or should I re-post to the new plumbing (yeah) section? Anyone have any ideas?

Also, why is the steam section suddenly at the bottom...it was so convenient at the top. Is this a seasonal change?

DanHolohan

I put things in alphabetical order.

Lots of people were writing to complain that their section wasn't up top like Strictly Steam. They said I was playing favorites. This seems like the fairest way to go.



I'll move this thread to the Plumbing section. Thanks.

vaporvac

Further thoughts...

I think I may have over thought this thing and scared away any help! I believe prior to the ceramic cartridges and such that most mixer valves were similar to the one pictured. The only difference might be that this has a separate control for the pressure and the temperature. I've been reading that the valves can bleed, but would that explain why it gets cold. I've also not been able to find any info on FIXING the bleed-through.



Let's get this new section up and running!!! thanks in advance.



Colleen

Charlie from wmass

Colleen only answer

you would need to open the valve and check for washers you could change. Systems with pressure over 75# we install pressure reducing valves on as many fixtures and faucets do not like the high pressure. I know it has been this high of pressure for decades, it does not mean it has been happy all that time.

vaporvac

WornWasher=HotValve?

Thanks, Charlie. So if I'm understanding you correctly, this bleed-through may just be a worn washer perhaps caused by the high-pressure? I don't think I could put a pressure-reducer on this, but maybe the guy and my old hardware store (where I bought a replacement stem!) can advise. Would this make it go cold so quickly as well?



I figured they used the large pipe because the house is so large and they wanted to make sure there was pressure on all floors. But you're right...just because it is, doesn't mean it's good. Would a pressure reducer be something to put by the meter? This is really the only tap where there's ever been a problem. Off-topic...could the high pressure be affecting other things?

Steamhead

I have an older Speakman single-handle valve

though not that old- it has two pistons with washers on the end, one each for hot and cold. On that one, the pressure-balance piston is piped in after the washers.



It's possible that yours has a pressure-balance that comes before the washers. If so, that might be the cause. ISTR this was an issue with some Moen units.

vaporvac

Diagrams!!!!

Thanks, Steamhead. I want to give a BIG shout-out to Mr. Frank Salacki at Speakman. I called there and he sent me diagrams of my valve and instuctions for operation. How awesome is that?. They don't even sell them anymore, but he looked it up and emailed it lickety-split. Now I'm just hoping someone here can help explain to me, based on the drawings, what is wrong with mine and how I might fix it. Thanks for reading this.

Oh yes, he also said that all the Mixometers were basically the same. He only had instructions for the commander.

Steamhead

Doesn't look

like that has a pressure-balance. Can you send me Mr. Salacki's info- I want to get the info on mine, which is a Sentinel rather than a Mixometer.

Bob Gagnon plumbing and heating

Dan

I think a Plumbing Forum will fit in well here and help a lot of people.

Thanks, Bob Gagnon

vaporvac

Sent U an Email, but found this...

Hey there. I sent you an email with the info on Friday, and found I had downloaded this prior. It wasn't useful for the Mixometer, but I think it's what you're looking for. Scroll down to the Speakman section.



http://www.tmssouth.com/downloads/PPfistertoSpeak.pdf

Larry Weingarten

cross connection

Hello:  It sounds like water is leaking from hot to the cold side of the plumbing, but testing for it will give you some more info to work with and help in the fixing of it. 



To test for cross connection, turn off water to your water heater.  If it's electric, turn off power, if gas turn to pilot.  Open a hot tap somewhere other than the shower and see what it does.  If there is no cross connection, the water will run only a little, then stop.  Otherwise it'll keep running.  If it runs, go back to the shower and listen for a high pitched ssissing sound.  Let it run a few minutes.  Stop the test , put things back as they were and then run hot water at the shower.  If the valve is cold and runs cold for a while first, you know that cold water came from testing and that there is a cross connection at the shower valve.



From there it's valve seats and/or washers/seals that are leaking.



Yours,  Larry



ps.  100 psi is too much.  40-60 is considered normal and is easier on the plumbing.

Rich_49

Kudos Dan

the site is fine as it is and I for one agree with your rationale , not that it matters .   I have been doing this for 30+ years and don't have a license (don't want one either) . There are 6300+ active plumbing Licenses in NJ and possibly 700 Real plumbers (Damn 80 & 90's) .   Heat Pro , would you have an oldtimer like me sit out of the action , after all A revolution is a revolution no matter how long the lever

vaporvac

Cross Connection...yes!

Thanks for this test. I'd given up on this post, but maybe I can get this worked out now. It seems I do have a cross connection





. My main problem now is getting to the valves. I'll try and post a pic on Monday and maybe someone will have a suggestion on how to remove them without ripping out the tile. Old houses... got to love them. Oh well, it's lasted 100 years and I'm not sure I won't  need a little maintenance at that point! At least I do have some gaskets that are supposedly for this mix-0-meter.



I know most people would have done this by now, but I had to put in a shut-off valve in the basement to at least the cold water. I can't find the hot one so I have to shut off the water to the entire house. That sort of puts a cramp in getting this done. It's on the agenda for Monday.

vaporvac

Cold taps turned hot???

Did not do this as planned as I had a toilet to fix...100yr old Douglas that should now be good for many a year.Three tries, but got her done.



So, I do need to get a picture of  the inside of the shower to see if anyone can figure out how to get to it without ripping out the tile. I did Larry's troubleshooting and there's definitely bleedthrough on the shower. But I'm now noticing other weird things concerning this bathroom's plumbing. These are recent issues only since dealing with the shower.

In the separate bathtub,  hot water is now coming out the cold tap and when I turn it on, I can hear water coming up to the shower, which is 10 ft away. The Hot tap is a trickle. Same thing for the sink, no hot from the hot tap, although it does seem to be cold water from the cold tap. I may have to let it run for a while as there's usually a wait for the hot in this bathroom. At least the toilet works!

Any thoughts on what would make this system go crazy like this after so long? I haven't changed any of the piping runs and have really just turned off the water at the mains or the cold water in the basement. I know the cold  is currently "on", as the toilet flushes with cold water.

Jean-David Beyer

Temperature regulating valve?

In my darkroom, I have a clever two-stage pressure balancing temperature regulating valve. Each input has a check valve in it so that if I turn off the output, the cross connection will not cause problems. If those check valves both stuck open (old age, calcium deposits, etc.), there would be a cross connection.



Some shower valves are like that. Normally, they probably do not need the check valves because the water would escape through the shower head. But my low-flow shower head has a valve in it that I use to regulate the flow. If I turn it off, I would have a cross connection problem. Did a shower head like mine recently replace an old one?

vaporvac

Problem solved!!!

If at first you don't succeED, try  try again, and then, HIRE A PLUMBER!  But not just any plumber, but one who'll work with you and take the time to figure it out. My thanks to Charlie, Steamhead, Larry and Jean-David. It was indeed the gaskets and a valve stuck open due to 100yrs of age and mineral depostis. Amazingly, it cleaned up like a charm. My plumber sanded, cleaned, reamed and polished it all like new, so I hope it's good for another century. (He also left the sink cleaner than he found it.)

I finally broke down after the toilet water went hot. It was, admittedly, nice, but I felt a bit TOO pampered. Also, when I turned on the bath, I could hear the water coming to the shower. It was beyond my diy skills and mainly, I did NOT want to break anything. The large gasket from Noel's (which was meant to be an exact fit) was way off, so we left the one I'd fabricated prior from hd gasketing and just used the smaller ones that came with the kit.

I will post pics for anyone else with this mixer valve. It was exquisite how it cam apart.

Although originally meant to be pulled out,  that wasn't possible with my tiled shower and no access panel. Fine copper nails slipped through the valves and turned at the bottom to hold them on. I thought for sure they'd break, but they remained as pliable as the day they were installed. A very elegant design, but I struggled with it for years, sure I'd have to break the tile to access it.

Alas, after the plumber left, I turned on the tub and now the hot tap won't turn off even when it's completely screwed down. It worked fine until we fixed the shower. Go figure. Urrgh.

Colleen

GordonGekko

My Speakman Sentinel Leaks

Hello folks, I'm new and I just replaced the whole cartridge for my Speakman Sentinel showerbody. The plumbing supply house and my area had the brand-new cartridge so I bought it replaced it and now I can't get the little drip to stop. I replaced the flat washers with the beveled washers, I put Teflon tape around the valve seats and yet it still trips a little bit.

Anybody have suggestions on how to stop this little drip? My next move is to get longer stainless steel screws and put two washers on instead of one on each side

icesailor

Cartridge:

I don't know what cartridge you were given or what you did, but it is usually a straight swap out of the box with no leaks. The washers are unique to only that valve. If you changed them to bevel washers, I don't think that the valve will work. Nor longer stainless steel screws.

You have to be extremely careful when you replace the cartridge that is isn't partway out and that you have the cartridge absolutely straight when you put it back in.

With that valve and the Kohler's, you have to be very careful that you put it together exactly like the old one was when it came out.

I never had a problem on any that I ever replaced. Sounds like it is cocked in the bore and now it has the wrong washers.

vaporvac

Hadn't read this....hmmmm

So I do have a low flow and wonder if this contributed to the problem.

Update:



Well the bath is fixed (Turn-odd in wrong direction), the toilet is no longer hot and the hot water is no longer heating the whole assembly...BUT the HW flow to both sink AND shower is VERY weak. Really not suitable for a shower. The HW pressure in the separate tub is great as is the cold water throughout the entire bathroom. There is no main shut-off to the hot water for this bathroom, but I don't think that's the problem as the bath get hot just fine. I believe the line head from the bath to the sink and shower, but it's hard to see in the access area.



What could be causing this very low pressure? These pipes are galvanized, I think. Could it just be debris and how could I trouble shoot this short of ripping out the plaster ceiling?

Thanks for any help. It would be wonderful to use this bathroom m again.

icesailor

New Posting:

I don't know if you just posted here today about your pressure problem and what you have done.

If your posting is a continuation of one, and you had pressure in the sink/shower, and only the hot, but now, you have less pressure and you have galvanized pipes, there is a complicated way to perhaps fix it. But you don't have (at this time) what you need to do it and it requires some work.

I write too much blather here. If it really is a problem, I'll post my method for clearing rust chunks from galvanized water lines. It has almost always worked for me. If the chunks are loose, it ALWAYS works.

vaporvac

Continuation of problem...

thanks icesailor,

This is actually a continuation of the same post, just an update on what got fixed and what's still not working. I posted as a reply because i hadn't seen the comment regarding loflo shower heads.

This post started as a question on my 100yr old Speakman shower Mixometer t and morphed into the addition of the Plumbing Forum to The Wall. Then a few others jumped into the Speakman fray with newer models. If you can bear it, skim through my post on the peior problems and their resolution.



The lack of hot water (other than a trickle) is now the issue. Thanks in advance for any insight you may have.

icesailor

Low Flow:

So, what have you been told is a solution other than a re-pipe?