heat pumps and old apartment buildings

AVSSCO

Not a comment, a question.



I own an apartment in a 100 year-old, 6 story building in Manhattan. There are 114 units. The 100 year old oil boiler is old and inefficient. Is it feasible for EACH INDIVIDUAL UNIT to be responsible for its own heating and water heating? A tankless water heater and a heat pump perhaps?



thank you, AVSSCO

Steamhead

Anything's possible

but whether or not it's a good idea........



Tell us more about your system- post some pictures too. Is it a steam or hot-water system?

unclejohn

Like Steam

Says, anything is possible, but how big a check do you want too write?

John Mills_5

Options

From a builder/landlord standpoint, heat pump with strips backup far

less money and much less to go wrong. Rare to have to fix a heat kit,

but those tankless machines are full of very expensive parts to fix.  Or

is budget not an issue?  If this is high end, water source heat pumps

with a boiler and tower. They could be billed for the juice of their

heat pump usage and cost of supplemental heat & tower in the HOA

bill.



Another lower priced option is a good PTHP or 2. That way

you don't have to snake linesets all around 6 stories and have 100 heat

pumps up on the roof. The pictures below are a new condo building, 10

stories, linesets up to 150' or more. Took special piping with a

subcooler on the linesets and a 3/8" line back to the compressor from

each condo. All 3 lines insulated.



Or possibly a ducted packaged

unit so no linesets and a quieter option than PTHP.

http://www.firstco.com/Products/Multi-Family-Residential-Products/Single-Package-Vertical-Units/SPXR-HP-A-%28heat-pump-electric-heat%29.

nicholas bonham-carter

inefficient heating system

is this steam or hot water?

why not describe what you have now, and would like to accomplish, and we can advise. why in particular do you think the system is inefficient?

you may just need a properly functioning boiler.--nbc

tim smith

Re; OLD BLDG

Do you have a chiller also? No a/c?  Your most economical solution if heat and hot water only would be new high efficiency gas condensing boilers, indirect hot water tanks off boiler and use a external monitoring company who puts wireless useage sensors on the piping to each unit, they have tenants sign a billing agreement and they collect for this from the tenants for you. The charge for the service was not bad when I talked to one of my clients last. Other option to sensors is the external billing company basis useage on sq foot then no sensors. Not quite as equitable but still works and they get to deal with collecting this.  

nicholas bonham-carter

Updated system

If you are lucky enough to already have a zoned hot water system, with one zone per apartment with a thermostat in each, then you can put an hour-meter on each zone valve or pump. Reading each of the meters, and computing it's fraction of the total boiler runtime will give the usage number.

However I suspect that you probably have a steam system, upon which little or no maintenance has been performed for many years, even though someone may have been billing you for an annual service.

Getting the deferred maintenance in shape may result in a fuel savings of up to a third. The comfort level for all will increase greatly.

Often condo/coop owners fear an increase in consumption if the system is to be made even for all, however that is ironically not the case. This summer would be the time to evaluate the system, and do the necessary work.--NBC

Steamhead

For an example of this

quote "Often condo/coop owners fear an increase in consumption if the system is to be made even for all, however that is ironically not the case."



go here:

http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/142217/The-King-Of-All-Crossover-Traps



In this case, the fuel consumption stayed the same, but the building now heats evenly with no open windows.