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Too many options - need help

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Comments

  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
    Thank you Carl

    Yah, I don't watch TV, I am a listen to music and surf the web type guy, and now that I have internet in my truck, I am never bored anymore...



    Try a rinnai, you will be surprised at how well they work, I like the condensing units the most, they are quiet, and work well... Our heating season here moves around, some times its 70 in october some times its 20 and some times its 70 in April and this year its lows in the 20's so far... "New England, if you don't like the weather, wait a minute"
  • Eastman
    Eastman Member Posts: 927
    two stage fintubes with indirect?

    What is the general consensus on two stage fintubes combined with an indirect tank that is also is utilized to buffer the heating system loads?



    To me, this seems like a very economical approach, both in upfront costs and long term total cost of ownership.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
    Buffer tanks

    Its nor common practice for me to use a buffer tank, a few companies make small large tapping tanks {heatflo, TT, ect} but for me I would rather design the system to not need it, you are adding cost and a part that is going to fail to the system to make up for a design flaw. Now using the Indirect as a double feature, what if you have low temp loads that dont get hot enough for DHW {unmixed radiant loops}, you will be cooling the hot water....



    Now as far as a 2 stage fintube boiler, I take it you mean something like the lochinvar unit? It would be a simple design, but I don't think it would be very efficient, since they are only around 80%... I have a customer with a tube boiler, its not a 2 stage its a raytherm {they call them raypax or something like that} and it was installed by someone else about 3 months before I ever laid eyes on it, it took us 18 hours to get it to work rite, not fun.... I can't say much more about this method or these boilers, I have seen pictures of the HE, and its not very impressive, not sure how long they will last.. I just don't have much use for them or experience with them...
  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
    Chris, good find on the article...

    I never seen that before, A LOT of info there... Rinnai has made things better since then too...



    I heat hot water for my family of 4 {me and the wife take 2 showers a day, but we fight my sons to take 1 each, lol} plus dishwasher, clothes washer, ect... And we use about $15 of gas a month, lol...
  • R Mannino
    R Mannino Member Posts: 438
    Chris

    Can I get the short version?
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    edited April 2013
    Family of Four

    With a Bradford White 40 Gallon MI, $45.00 a month for gas. 6 Showers a day, plus wash machine and dishwasher. So your saving 30.00 a month over me. So your logic for that Rinnai should be the same as a Mod Con right? In the summer it drops to about 25 bucks. Now if I could just find an ecm motor for my pool pump. Anyone know of any?
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • heatpro02920
    heatpro02920 Member Posts: 991
    Chris, your doing good

    with your water tank, I have a house my cousin rents from me, 2 people live there {him and his girlfriend} and the gas bill in the summer is $80 {never less than $80 rather}, and that is a whirlpool 40 gallon tank, I am switching it to a Rinnai, but waiting for the rezoning {I'm switching it to a multifamily}.. My rinnai uses no more than $15 a month AND THAT IS LP, if I had a tank it would be over $100, and I would never be able to have 3 showers running in the morning, plus we have a Neptune Tokyo jet tub in our master bath, it is insanely large {2 jet pumps in it}, we have 2 volume balls in it so we can save water but I want to say it hold almost 300 gallons of water!!!! Try filling that with a tank, that is when the Rinnai master bath controller comes in handy....
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    A wee bit

    on the mind-numbing side, but very well done.



    Skip to p.60 and jump to p.83 if that starts to bore you.



    They used $1.20 per Therm for NG and $0.12 per kWH for electricity and found:



    The simple payback calculation showed that at current installed costs and energy prices 20 to 40 years would be necessary for a TWH to pay for itself, as shown in Table 23. The economics would be improved for TWHs on a life cycle basis if, as some TWH manufacturer’s claim the lifetime of a TWH is significantly longer than the StWH.



    Here in NM, our electricity runs just a tad over $0.12 per kWH, but our NG is under $0.60 per Therm.  Tough math.
  • Paul48
    Paul48 Member Posts: 4,469
    Now

    convert kWH to therms........$3.50 ?
  • SWEI
    SWEI Member Posts: 7,356
    converting

    They were accounting for total energy use, including electrical use by fans, controls, and freeze protection.  The deal killer is the NG cost, which would roughly double the payback around here.
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