Whining upon shutdown, Still, even with a new furnace>!

Jim87

hi, i just had an older 25 yr plus tankless burnham replaced by a new eutectic model.  I replaced the burnham due to age and in large part due to a lound whining it was making upon shutting down.  The new eutectic model is now installed and after 2 days it is making the same exact noise upon shutting down.   The oil tank is only about 2 years old with a new line.  What could be causing the whining soun? I can not isolate exactly where it is coming from but i think near the burner (Riello)?  Any thoughts are appreciated.  Also my previous Becket model burner had 2 different fuel pumps replaced which temporarily stopped the whining sound for a couple of weeks each.



thanks for you time,

Jim

Aaron_in_Maine

Oil line

Is your oil line overhead or on the floor? If it is overhead riello burners don't like that. There could also be a restriction in the oil line or oil filter. Have your tech do a vacuum check on the line that will tell you what might be going on.

heatpro02920

tigerloop

I have been getting in the habit of installing tiger loops on Riellos with over head lines... I notice the pumps last longer, no noise complaints, easy to get going, and no service calls when the customer runs out of oil...

pipeking

got to love

 tiger loop! they solve everything! almost everything! if u think it's the pump, i would do exactly that flush the line, make sure there r no kinks, and if that doesn't solve it use a tiger loop. the tiger loops lets u use the return and relieves stress on the pump.

billtwocase

tigerloop

will not stop a pump whine. These things are not a cure all. I would also say this has an overhead line

pipeking

what do u sugest billtwocase?

if the oil line is over head what do u sugest? if the oil line is a gravity feed what do u sugest?

billtwocase

are there

coils on both ends? I see it often where there is no coil of line at both ends of the supply line. Pumps make a slight gear noise when in operation. Send it back to the tank, and it is magnified to say the least. Can you provide some pics? Filter brand/model/location? The noise is not an air problem. What is the vacuum reading? Near boiler piping  close to line? If overhead, how is the line secured? Need more info. There are also anti-hum valves that can be installed, last resort ofcourse

Jamie Hall

Is the oil line

tied to any piping overhead?  Or any other metal?  There is a certain amount of normal vibration from the gear type pumps, which normally you wouldn't hear -- but if the line is tightly tied to something else it can be amplified and telegraphed all over the place.

icesailor

More on Tigerloops:

Some of you guys should study up on Tigerloops and why they were developed.

Those hated (by some) figured out that the most environmentally dangerous oil practice around was a two pipe oil system. If anything happens to the return, the burner will pump the entire tank contents on the ground. Many European countries outlawed two pipe oil tank set ups. A Tigerloop turns ANY oil tank connection into a one pipe system.

High vacuum levels cause out gassing of fuel oil. Tigerloops eliminate the gas.

Its rejection out of hand that is the demise of technology.

Maybe some of you don't want to eliminate a oil line under a floor and go overhead and use a Tigerloop, but it sure has worked well for me and anyone else that did it.

Last month I got a call from a customer who had run out of oil. The oil company told them to call me because they had no one to prime and start it. The owner called me. Two cycles on a 60200 control and it was running. Try doing that without a Tigerloop.

If you have a problem, and a Tigerloop solves it, why on earth would you not want to use one?

heatpro02920

100% correct

and more so with riello burners and overhead lines.. I just install them with every oil fired boiler now {except for the tight proposed ones which would not be a riello anyway}.. I am pretty confident it will cure the noise as I have used them for this very reason, the braided lines help may have a lot to do with that but I have nothing but good luck with TL's, and you will save oil too....

heatpro02920

100% correct

and more so with riello burners and overhead lines.. I just install them with every oil fired boiler now {except for the tight proposed ones which would not be a riello anyway}.. I am pretty confident it will cure the noise as I have used them for this very reason, the braided lines help may have a lot to do with that but I have nothing but good luck with TL's, and you will save oil too....

billtwocase

saving oil, and solves all problems

those  statements are new to me. I have never had the need to solve a problem with a tigerloop. Most people that install them also think they have no life expectancy, or never leak. They need to be replaced after I think 5-6 years? Two pipe is a thing of the past, mostly due to underground storage tanks becoming taboo. I prefer to see an OSV at the tank, positive shut off, fireomatic valves at both ends, and flare fittings with a protected supply line. Life don't get any better than that

heatpro02920

I agree,

with you bill, single line with Flared fittings, firomatics at both ends, an OSV valve, coated oil line ran below the floor grade is the best way to go. BUT, all systems are not setup where this is possible, we have finished basements, outdoor and underground tanks, long runs, ect... This is where the tiger loop gets handy...



I have been offering service contracts and 24 Hour E-service for a long time now and I have noticed {actually hired a company to analyse my service history to save me money and help with contract pricing, years later I ended up buying a program that allows me to track everything in real time, day by day case by case, that tells me where we are losing} the results all show the same things...



Majority of night calls are of course during sustained high d/d counts...

Oil fired equipment

oil feed system problems {out of oil, clogged lines filters, strainers, and nozzles}.



That is when I looked into things that could cut down these calls, we came up with a preventive maint, program that has saved me thousands and has made my customers much more comfortable...

1-We keep track of our customers fuel use {for delivered fuels coal, propane, and oil}, by using Fuel Manager software and I have my own degree day equipment {Daywatcher is amazing stuff}.... My customers simply give us permission to order their deliveries and we contact their delivery service when they are do according to or computer. And by doing this, I can search for the best price between a few oil companies I deal with, and I inturn get a percentage of the oil I sell} - So this has cut down the "out of oil" calls over 90% {almost 100% with contract customers}...



2- We started checking oil systems out and isolating the problem systems, giving the contract customer discounts on repairing trouble prone systems with things like..

Tank Flushings, TIGER LOOPS, new oversized oil lines, line heaters on outdoor oil tanks as well as making sure all outdoor tanks got additive in the cold months, and a few other things that I don't want to bore you guys with...



And I am going to stop myself here since this is turning into a very long hijacking, the moral of the story being, I have a lot of tiger loops out there, I just installed a double unit on a buderus G515 I installed, and I have never had to replace one, ever!! So I dont know where to lifespan of 5-6 years came in, I have them out there much older than that... and they do quiet down the pumps a noticeable amount, which is a plus, and I have noticed the pumps are lasting much longer {honestly hardly ever change a pump with one installed!!!}....

heres a link to their sell sheets...

http://www.westwoodproducts.com/images/Tigerloop_is_reliability_US.pdf



To the OP, I apologize for the long posts, that are semi off topic, can we get some pics of the oil system how its ran and hot it connects, I would venture to say its a longish' overhead run with that runs tight rite to the burner from the tank...



What makes me curious is the old furnace did it, then the new furnace ran for a little while and now started doing it with a new oil line... I am surprised at this... Have you called the installation contractor?

Pleas ekeep us informed I would really like to know the cause, to me it doesnt sound like a hum problem but an aerating issue, like the pump works through the cycle then when the suction stops it winds down letting the vacuum stabilize and is making noise in the process, this is why I recommended a tigers loop...



thanks for reading guys....

billtwocase

I guess it's 8 years

There is another link that will support that. We have had this Tigerloop thingy before. It is good for some, and they swear by them. In 30 years, I have never needed one. Just one more potential oil leak or spill. I have all the scenarios that you also have. Overhead, mile long runs, finished basements, etc. Also an oversized line is an air problem within itself where it is not warranted, and taking leaking 2 pipe systems out of operation will save oil.  I have removed leaking tigerloops, and ones that were actually moaning during operation. Strange but true. 

Jim87

Yes, it's overhead

Wow, you guys knew it was an overhead line.  Right under my bedroom is the tank and line running in the joist by about 9' from the tank to the furnace.  Steel AST 275, no loops, PVC coated line.  It goes straight up from the filter, along the joist bay, then back down to the burner.  The tank installer put that line in  overhead and told me it was code to have it off the floor now.  We never had any noise like we do now after the AST was replaced and the oil line was taken off the floor and moved to the overhead position. 

The furnace installer will check it out this week, and i'll let you all know the result and take a picture or two as well. THanks again for the insight.

Jim87

Yes, it's overhead

Wow, you guys knew it was an overhead line.  Right under my bedroom is the tank and line running in the joist by about 9' from the tank to the furnace.  Steel AST 275, no loops, PVC coated line.  It goes straight up from the filter, along the joist bay, then back down to the burner.  The tank installer put that line in  overhead and told me it was code to have it off the floor now.  We never had any noise like we do now after the AST was replaced and the oil line was taken off the floor and moved to the overhead position. 

The furnace installer will check it out this week, and i'll let you all know the result and take a picture or two as well. THanks again for the insight.