Muddy Boiler

Kid1 · February 2013

Hi,

I’ll try to make a long story as short as possible.

My 30 year old Weil Mclean 150Btu boiler went out last season. We had it replaced 4 months ago with a Williamson 150Btu. 

The guy that installed it didn’t really know what he was doing. One of the many things he didn’t do right was to clean the system after installation. So, I had violent surging within a day. I have used cleaners to clean the system ‘Steam Clean’ mainly. 

I never cleaned the system before, except for draining the old boiler and filling it back up. We’ve lived in the house for 8 years and I have no clue if the former owners did any maintenance. Because of the Steam Clean, I am getting tons of mud coming down from the lines into the boiler. If you look at the picture the drain valve ‘A’, (right below the Hartford Loop and before the return in the boiler) gets clogged with mud. So much mud that I have to take the valve off and spoon the mud out with a screwdriver. The sight glass has been full of mud as well. I have literally flushed (drained and refilled) this boiler out at least 20 times in the past 4 months. 

Now the boiler knocks when it first turns on. From what I’ve read here is that the boiler has a layer of mud on the bottom which is causing the water underneath that layer to boil, causing the knocking.



There are no leaks.

How do I get rid of the mud on the bottom of the boiler? Will a steady routine of ‘Steam Clean’ and draining/refilling the boiler eventually get rid of the mud?

There is no King Valve, so I can’t do a pressurized flush. If one was installed where would it be located in the pictures exactly?

Thanks!

MTC · February 2013

Its a little hard to tell from your pictures...

but it looks like as usual the near boiler piping is all wrong. Can you post a picture more from the side, showing all the piping above the boiler?

The king valve would go in the riser(s) off the header, typically. This, and a valve to stop all flow backwards into the return lines, allows you to pressurize the system for a flush out of your 'Drain C"

You probably also need to do a boiler skimming, to remove excess oils from the system. I don't think your draining and cleaning will get all of that out, but I'm also not familiar with your particular cleaning product, so maybe someone will correct me on that.

If you have wet returns, it might be your best bet to just rip them out and replace them. They're likely where the majority of the mud is coming from, and by the time you get them all flushed out, you may just find that they don't hold water anymore. You're usually best off replacing wet returns when you do the boiler, as they rot out, and it gets rid of most of the mud.

Kid1 · February 2013

Runs Better

I forgot to mention that the system does seem to be working better. All radiators heat now and more evenly. So I do believe the Steam Clean is working. But, the mud on the bottom of the boiler does concern me.

Thanks!

Kid1 · February 2013

More Pics

Thank for you help!

Here are more pics.

I wanted the installer to do a drop header and get rid of the 'bull horns'. But, when he showed up he said he couldn't do that, and either he would install the boiler with the original pipes from the old boiler or I should call someone else. Is was 30 degrees outside at the time and I desperately needed a new boiler...

Thanks!

MTC · February 2013

Yes, you can use some repiping there...

Drop headers are great, and it is possible to put one in your setup, but I don't think its necessary. If you want to get drier steam, you could just use a longer riser out of your boiler, giving you a higher standard header. Then you want to see 2 risers come off of that header to go up to each of the mains, not one that snakes around and bullheads into a Tee to supply the 2 mains. If you want king valves, you put them in these risers. After those risers, you pipe an elbow to attach to the equalizer. You don't want the steam riser coming off the top of the equalizer like that.

If you remove that strange riser and bullheaded Tee to the 2 mains, you should have plenty of room to get a higher than spec header and proper risers in there.

I'd suggest replacing your wet returns (all piping below boiler's water line), and while you're at it, installing a valve there to work with your king valve. There are posts on here, and some of Dan's books do a great job of explaining the best ways to do all this piping, valves, drains, etc to allow for cleaning and such.

Kid1 · February 2013

Thanks!

Sounds like a plan! Probably one that will have to wait until summer.

Is there something I can do about the mud in the meantime?

Thanks!

MTC · February 2013

There are posts on here about

how to clean wet returns. Look for some of those. Your cleaner is going to bring crud back from the whole system, but the majority of the mud you're getting is likely coming out of that wet return. If you can get it cleaned out, then do another flush or two of the system with cleaner, you'll probably be ok. You may not need to replace the wet returns, but after scrubbing them out of all that muck, you'll often find that they start leaking (the muck was sealing up the pinholes that have been eaten through it over the years). Be conscious of this for the rest of the year, look out for leaks, they might come. Or they might not, but the probability goes way up after scrubbing those things out.

In your pics, I see 2 unions - one on the harford loop, and one over around the backside of the boiler. Next time you have it drained, I'd pop apart both unions, take that whole section of pipe out and clean it out as best you can, and also clean out the open end of the pipe going through the wall as far back as you can (put a bucket under it, the crap that comes out will be nasty). I've used things like a coat hanger with a hook on the end of it (to help pull sludge out). There's lots of ways to do it, but get as much mud out of there as you can, then put the pipes back together. This shouldn't be a huge undertaking, and should make a significant difference.

Rod · February 2013

Boiler Cleaning Wand

Hi- Take a look at this link on using a cleaning wand - http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/143078/Rinsing-the-boiler

- Rod

Muddy Boiler

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