propane tank gas fireplace regulator

realolman

I have the regulator from my gas fireplace in my hand. I took it apart and inspected the diaphragm etc.  ...



with the spring completely removed, should the flow of gas be completely shut off?



Seems to me it should be off, and I can blow through it.

icesailor

Propane Regulator:

The regulator should be at the tank or where the gas goes into the house. I thnk you are blowing into the gas valve. The gas valve would be closed unless you can operate it with the safety devices installed with the appliance.

Why do you have the gas valve taken off?

Every gas fireplace installation instructions and owners manual I have seen have a comment on the first page.

"Installation and service must be performed by a qualified installer, service agency or the gas supplier".

Do you fall under any of those categorys?

LP Gas is NOT a DIY project.

bob_46

Blow

Yes you should be able to blow through it. Appliance regulators are not positive downstream shut off .

icesailor

Regulators Vs. Gas Valves:

Which is why I think it is the gas valve and not the gas regulator.

There may be some out there but all the LPG fireplaces I have installed had no regulator on them but ALL had a gas valve.

And you couldn't blow through the valve unless it was properly opened.

realolman

seems to me there would have to be some minimum pressure

It's the regulator.  I got it from the tank.



Icesailor,   ...if you don't want to answer my questions that is your prerogative... I posted a question about the fireplace before, and you gave me a hard time then,too.



It seems to me that if the regulator NEVER sealed off completely, that the pressure on the downstream side would eventually build to tank pressure... It seems to me that there would have to be SOME minimum pressure at which the regulator would HAVE to seal off completely with the spring removed.



I have been wanting to go to the hardware store and get some tubing, to make a U-tube manometer, but I haven't been able to get there... I guess that  would be the sensible thing to do.... then I'd know what the pressure was for sure

bob_46

Reg

The regulator at the tank will be positive down stream lock-up. If you have it in your hand with the spring removed you will still be able to blow through it . There is a minimum pressure at which it will lock with no spring . With nothing on the outlet you can't build that minimum pressure under the diaphragm . What trouble are you having?

Paul48

Dangerous

What you are doing is dangerous. That's why he's cautioning you. Why would you pull it apart, unless you knew what you were doing, and had a rebuild kit for it? From my point of view, it's like taking you cars engine apart, just for a look-see.Did I ever tell you the story of my friend Joe that decided to take down the wall between his kitchen and dining room? He had that wall down with a sledgehammer and it only took 3 beers to get it down.Oh....I forgot to mention, it was the bearing wall running down the center of the house.

icesailor

Questions:

So far, any question you have asked has been answered with an answer that we don't want to be responsible for something bad happening to you.



You seem like you have absolutely no understanding of how LPG, a heavier than air gas can be the most dangerous killer on the planet. When it leaks, it stays on the floor and gathers like gasoline in a garage. Give it ignition and it will cause you to need to change your shorts. Honest.

As far as I remember, you have never said what is wrong with your gas log set. Or why you are taking it apart.

My log set worked fine during the storm. I point the remote at it and it goes on. Hold the button and it goes up or down. Hold the off button long enough and it turns off.

All the ones I have seen are not convertable from one gas to another.

realolman

thanks

"There is a minimum pressure at which it will lock with no spring . With

nothing on the outlet you can't build that minimum pressure under the

diaphragm ."

                                                                                                                          Bob



Thanks for your reply Bob.



I think you are exactly right ...I pretty much came to that conclusion.  There is nothing other than the gas pushing up on the diaphragm, and I had the regulator disconnected and  removed the spring pushing down.... so there is nothing to really shut the valve.... however if you hold your hand over the discharge end a bit and create some pressure under the diaphragm, it will shut the valve.   I also dried out some condensation  that was in the first part of the regulator ... I don't know if something could have been frozen or not.



 I just came back from the local tractor supply with some clear tubing... I'm going to make a u-tube manometer and I'll see what kind of pressure the regulator supplies to the fireplace.



The problem is that the flame in the fireplace is way too large, too orange, and soots up the fireplace glass within a few hours.  I took the thing apart, and cleaned the burner and the combustion chamber.... everything looks good in there... I can't see what would make the flame too big and too orange and sooty except too much gas.



I can see it being orange and sooty due to lack of air, but it seems to me that it has to be too much gas to be too large

realolman

did too

icesailor:  "As far as I remember, you have never said what is wrong with your gas log set. Or why you are taking it apart"

http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/144902/propane-fireplace-flame-too-big

realolman

I/m sorry

I don't see how the story of your friend drinking beer and tearing load bearing walls out of his house addresses  my question  whether or not my gas regulator should allow flow through it with the adjusting spring removed.

Bob Harper

get a hearth pro

I'm concerned about a number of things said here. First of all, a qualified professional should not be dissecting a precision gas control such as a regulator--if its bad, you replace it. There is too much unqualified monkeying around with this fireplace. For one, you never reduce the inlet pressure below mfr. specs.

There should be a rating plate attached to a metal tag to this appliance indicating the make, model, fuel setup, input BTU rating, listing and lighting instructions. No tag= unlisted logset, which should be removed from service and replaced with a listed set. There are two listings for vented gas logs: ANSI Z21.84 for basic set and Z21.60 for your std. vented gas logs. BTW, ventfree are listed to Z21.11.2b



All this is over the turndown rate?

Paul48

I see now

I used the link to your original post, and now you have more recommendations to disregard.

icesailor

Soot:

If it is making soot, the orifice may be too big and for Natural Gas.

I replaced two decorative fireplace log sets for a customer. They bought the appliances. They were made by a quality manufacturer. One was advertised as having "A deep woods smoke look". It made lots and lots of smoke, soot and CO. The other appliance could be connected to the gas and run without the logs or stuff provided on the floor. Which is how I ran it before installing the logs, the "glowing embers" and the Lava Rock/pebbles. I tried lighting the other one without the logs rocks/pebbles and embers. It required vermiculite on the base. It didn't start right away but when it did, the gas was all around me. The vermiculite was part of the appliance.

If you like danger and excitement, can I suggest that you take up milking venomous snakes. Its about equal.

Techman

Starting

with two pressure readings is a good starting place. One press in the gas line on the outlet of the regulator and the 2nd in the gas valve outlet side.

realolman

thanks

I hereby release you from all responsibility. Thank you for your concern.



You can ignore any posts I make, or answer them if you like.  I would appreciate your knowledge and experience,  I would think that's what forums like this are for ...but I really don't see any reason for any future analogies to milking venomous snakes or anything of this other nonsense.



I didn't ask anything stupid. I just asked whether a regulator should allow gas through with the main spring removed and disconnected from the gas. I got a good reasonable answer and a bunch of nattering naysayers' disrespect.   You just assumed I don't know a regulator from a gas valve...  I gave you no reason to think so.   You want to act like you're part of some exclusive group that knows what no one else could possibly know.



I have been an industrial mechanic for over 30 years.  I have worked on LPG forklifts and natural gas burners up to 14 MBTU.  and plenty of other things way more complicated and dangerous than a gas fireplace.  I doubt too many "qualified" guys who would come through the door would know as much about things as I do. 



There is no reason to not tear that regulator apart...  I did and I put it back together... It's not that big a deal... I know exactly what's in there now, and its condition.  I am going to get this thing figured out, and will get it fixed, and will know what's what with it when I am done. 



You can help,  ignore,  or act like knotheads... whatever suits you

Aaron_in_Maine

Really

If you have worked on all that then why is a little fireplace giving you trouble. I would call a pro. I worked for a propane company for ten years and replaced tons of regulators. If you think the regulator is a problem call your propane company the tanks and regulators are usually company owned they will make sure your gas pressure is correct because they want you to burn gas!

realolman

yeah you're right... you caught me

I'm lying... I never did any of those things..... what the heck's the matter with you people?



B.S. like this ruins forums.  I regret having asked anything.

RobG

A stupid question

Have you tried calling the manufacturer about the problem? Chances are they have run into the situation you are experiencing and can give advice?

Rob

realolman

put it back together

Set the regulator for  12 "  put her back together, soaped everything.... fired her back up.... nice blue flames with yellow tips  ..



looks good.



thanks to everyone who helped.