Where in the heck is my water going???

Timco

2-pipe system, mil BTU. Last month the plumbing inspector left the fill on when he certified the BFP, and flooded the system up to the first floor rads.



Now, the system shuts down on LWCO every 3rd day. I flooded the boiler when it was cycled off and cool and not a drop. Not a drop of water in the fire box or around the boiler. Main vent closes perfect. Only 8' or so of wet return under cement, and I have test holes drilled along it and no moisture whatsoever comes up.



Today I watched with my own eyes the water level drop 1.5" in 2-3 seconds, and stay down, as the steam started up, but I attribute that to stuck open spring checks instead of a swing check on the horizontal run. Also, too long of connection and too low from loop to boiler. But, those issues would not explain my water loss.



I crawled all the way up on both sides and found the pipes to be in excellent condition, actually. That leaves steam escaping from rads / valves / traps / vents that should not be on there. Right? It only takes a few bad valve packings to lose a considerable amount of water, correct?

nicholas bonham-carter

vanishing waterline

check your pigtail under the pressuretrol, and gauge for obstruction, causing the pressure to rise up out of control, and blow out the water into the returns. you will only need 8 ounces on a very cold day to heat the building. will the water eventually return, or has it gone forever? is there now water-hammer where none existed before?

wet steam could blow that water out of the boiler, but it would return later. your header looks lower than the standard height above the waterline-24 inches. water could become trapped in the rads, but then there would be hammering.

i don't think that amount of water could be lost through leaking valve stem packing nuts.--nbc

Timco

Gone.

Oh, the water is gone. Period. Has to be filled every 3rd day. I run it at about 1.5 because that's as low as that presstrol will go reliably. Hard to sell vapor stats when they have heat it seems.



The south building has chronic leaks in its returns and that's where it looses water when it acts up but this building is in great shape underneath. Very little banging and only on a cold start up.

Hap_Hazzard

Looks like a lot of it is going up the system riser.

Not sure where it's going after that, but that low-rise header is not giving the water that sprays up when the steam bubbles erupt a chance to settle down before they hit that system riser, so you're getting wicked carryover, especially because there's only one boiler riser and it's close to the water line, and the steam flow is pushing all the water towards that side of the shallow steam chest. This boiler would do a lot better with a drop header and two long, tall boiler risers.



That said, I'm not sure if this is related to you water loss--carryover usually comes back with the condensate--but considering how much water is going out the main, you may not be looking for leaks in the right places. Have you checked for leaking radiator valve packings and spitting vents?

Timco

System

The system actually runs pretty well, despite it's issues.



Turns out I was asked to enter a random apartment to show the maint guy what the packing is and that unit had 2 leaking packing and a vent where it certainly dose not belong just spewing steam out non-stop.



Sheesh. Imagine building wide????

nicholas bonham-carter

Reverting the system

Sounds like a big order of Hoffman 40's, 1a's, and gorton 2's is in order for this place.. Not to mention a 0-3 psi gauge.

Maybe it's time for a vaporstat too.--NBC

Just looked back, and now I see it is ,a 2-pipe system, which is why you said the vent does not belong, so new ,trap replacements are maybe in order for this. The fact that any radiator vent is spewing steam is always a sign to me of out of control pressure.

Maybe when you find the cause of the incorrect radiator vent installation, you will see where the water went.

Paul48

Take a Picture

Take a picture of a rad vent and put a pamphlet under each door. Find out how many rads you have like that. For that matter, do the same thing with a pic of a valve, and show people where to check for leaks. Explain you are trying to improve the comfort level...they'll cooperate.

Timco

changes

I gave them a price per trap to supply them, and I always use a 1-5lb gauge on any steamer I service to set pressure more accurately.



We audit and look in every apartment today.

Hap_Hazzard

Pressure gauges

You probably know this, but a low pressure gauge should be provided in addition to, rather than instead of, the 30 psi gauge. Useless as they are, most local codes require 30 psi gauges in working order.

Timco

Gauge

Yes, I should have been more clear. I use a tee and add a 0-5 gauge in addition to my 0-30 which is required here as well. Twice the relief value.

Timco

Gauge

Yes, I should have been more clear. I use a tee and add a 0-5 gauge in addition to my 0-30 which is required here as well. Twice the relief value.