Efficiency of Steam System

Steamhead

I'll second Tunstall

and they do more than traps- they offer rebuild kits for a lot of old Vapor system valves, and will design one and add it to their catalog if you send them a valve. For example, we now know of at least three variations of the Hoffman #7 valve usually found on systems with Differential Loops. Tunstall had a kit for one version- we have found two more and will have kits for them before too long. 

Charlie from wmass

And now you see

how people "save" so much by converting to hot water systems. You have a systen with most of the traps messed with and a good chance the ones left un molested are not working well. Fix the traps, vent the mains, and show Henry your savings. Hot water will heat a building for less fuel than steam will, it is physics. The cost and turmoil in converting a steam heated building to hot water is seldom done to save money, long term or short term. The only time we ever recommend a conversion is if many piece of the puzzle have changed. That would mean a steam system beyond ready repairs, a use change ( like turning a factory into condos), a building envelope upgraded to modern standards, and a floor plan change.

MTC

3/4" pipe venting

I have always been told that at basically any pressure, a 3/4" pipe will handle a little over 4 Gorton #2s. To maximize, 4 #2s and 1 #1.



3/4" pipe will vent 9.5CFM at 3oz. I don't have numbers for any other pressure on the pipe. Gorton #2 vents 2.2CFM at 3oz, and a #1 vents .7CFM at 3oz.

Prospect_Handy_Man

More Steam Maintenance to do

Thanks to the fine people here, I have just finished replacing all the guts in my old Warren Webster radiator traps with new Tunstall capsules, and got $25 for every trap I  rebuilt from national grid . The heating in the building is better, but still not heating perfectly. A few questions: is it ok to remove the old capped pipes that come of the main, where some radiators were removed from the system many years ago. Also I believe the return lines have never been flushed in this 2 pipe system and I believe some portions may be clogged. How should I go about doing that? I believe I gave the main steam line specs earlier this year. Would it be better to put some Hoffman 8C traps on the end of my mains rather than using traditional steam vents, and if so, how many? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Prospect_Handy_Man

Steam Main Size

Figured I'd re-post my steam main specs, so you don't have to go looking for them.  The first main comes off the header and runs a 4-in pipe for 75 feet, the pipe then reduces to 3-in and runs for an additional 72 feet to the end. The second main comes off the header and runs 4-in pipe for 82 feet, the pipe then reduces to 3-in and runs for an additional 52 feet, it reduces again to 1 1/2-in and runs for 20 feet to the end. FYI Steam almost never reaches the end of the second main where it runs into the dry return. Second main is where the heating issues are still occurring. I believe it is at least partially due to a clogged return line somewhere, and lack of venting.

MDNLansing

Same Thing

I have a very old vacuum system that sounds like the mains are piped the same way as yours. Does you condensate return pipe follow the mains around the basement? Is the condensate return line vented centrally? Not having any vents on the mains at all would suggest it was vented into the condensate return and the condensate return was then vented. My mains drop below the water line, and vent into the condensate return to be vented to the atmosphere with a vacuum vent. The mains themselves have no vents attached to them, but do vent to the return side of the system. Is there any evidence at the end of the mains that this was once the case?

Prospect_Handy_Man

Steam Vents

The return line does run next to the steam main around the building. As far as I have seen so far, the steam main only runs into the wet return. I have not seen it connected to the dry return anywhere. There is a vent on the old return trap in the boiler room. Just a marble type vent that allows air to escape from the lines when the steam is traveling. But as far as I know, all the air is being pushed through the radiators and into the return and venting like that through the return trap for now. By adding vents to the ends of my steam main, it should allow the air to fill the main lines faster and heat more evenly. I just need to know haw many Hoffman 8C traps I should use on each main. Remember that this system was changed in the past and someone could have removed vents that were once present.