Richardson 2 pipe steam system with NO Thermostatic Steam Trap but radiator air valves

radonc

Hello everyone,



Well I spent several days searching the forum (excellent forum) and reading many posts on similar systems here to better understand what heating system I may have and why the current setup may be wrong. So far this is what I've been able to assess.



I have a Richardson 2 pipe steam system with NO Thermostatic Steam Trap at the return pipe near the radiator. The return pipe is an elbow that leads to the dry return in the basement that has a main air vent (was a Maid-O-Mist Jacobus Self Adjustable Air Valve 04, but I just replaced it with a Gorton #1 3/4"x1/2" Main Vent Valve in August) and that is connected to the wet return that leads to the boiler. From what I can tell there is no Hartford loop so what appears to be a check valve is in place to prevent hotwater from the boiler entering into the wet return line. The radiators (9) two floor, one family house, have air valves. From what I'm reading now, they shouldn't be there. I found the 1/4" plugs that the air valves replaced. Currently there is heat to all radiators in the last couple of years. I'm now trying to piece together why the plugs were removed and air-valves put in place.



I do recall years ago that the two end rooms getting very cold and at one point one of those end rooms wasn't heating at all so a kerosene heater (35 years ago) was use when I was younger. At some point 15-20 years ago, the plugs were removed and air-valves put in place. Heat started to go to that radiator. So I guess a decision was made to remove all the plugs and put in place air-valves.



I see Maid-O-Mist on the two dry returns in the basement but not on the Steam Mains. I don't even see where a vent would be placed on the steam main if one were to consider it. I guess what was there originally when the system was put in place (I've read discussion here about some kind of old fashion vacuum device) was malfunctioning and these Main Air Vents were then used instead.



So I guessed that the reason the radiator wasn't getting hot was because air was trapped in the system. Not only were there main air vents placed on the dry returns (two, one for each opposing ends of the house since there are two steam mains coming out of the boiler), air valves were also placed on all the radiators. This is a guess on my part. Now I've read where a Richardson system utilizes the Richardson Trap that may have a "unique ball check system instead of a trap" based on responses to other posts by the very helpful members here like "Rod" and "Steamhead". So I'm now asking myself if the "ball check" may have also been an

issue. But yet the radiators are getting heated for the past 10 years. But are they getting heated optimally? That is why I started doing all the reading. Even though there is heat to the radiators, is it optimal or functioning properly.



From what I've read in the last couple of days the steam system setup here may be wrong but for whatever reason still delivers heat to the radiators, but probably not efficiently.



One note, two years ago, I replaced a broken inlet valve to one on the radiators, and just saw on that broken valve "Richardson, May 1917". Also it is a Honeywell Pressuretrol in use.



Feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 



Thanks all.

JStar

Richardson

http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/1395/28.pdf



Here's a little info on your system. I know Steamhead will come in here later and school all of us on this system, but I know that the air vents do not belong on the radiators. The elbows on the return have ball checks in them that act like traps. This system wold greatly benefit from a Vaporstat and a little love...without even getting into the boiler itself.

radonc

The "Plugs"

Thanks JStar. That's one of the few .pdf I downloaded from "heatinghelp" that you and others posted in various threads that got me on the right track as to what my steam system is. I'm trying to better understand the system I have and see what corrections can be made to better improve the overall performance.

It's after reading Dan Holohan's article "What you should know about Hartford Loops" and another article "Bad Practice on 2-Pipe Steam" is when I started looking further into the system I have.



These were the "plugs" that were removed from the radiators that now have Gorton Angle Vapor Equalizing Valves.



Cal

JStar

Vents

With proper system venting, you shouldn't need radiator vents on this style system.

Steamhead

If a Richardson system won't vent

either the ball checks in the return ells are stuck, or the air holes in the internal portions of the radiator return fittings are plugged. Or the dry return vent may not be working or too small (as that M-o-M #4 certainly was). Or there may be a water pocket in a return line.



Find the problem and fix it. Put the plugs back in the radiators, and sell the radiator vents on eBay.

Fizz

Richardson is low pressure system

which operates at several oz of pressure.  I have a Richardson, which works very well except for one rad.  Listened to many of fine contributors here, and changed from pressuretrol to vaporstat,  The system operates from 1-3oz of pressure, very quietly.  When we first moved in 12 yrs ago(was grandparents home), sevral rads didn't work, and some had plugs(add-on rads), which I removed per this site advice.  Now all work well but one, but hopefully will find problem.  Note your pressuretol is set at over 1/2lb for cut-in, way too high.  Til you get vaporstat, set it at lowest possible setting for cut-in.  You will see big difference with v-stat in place as it is much more accurate, and as Dan says, these systems love vaporstats!

radonc

Vents, check valve, Pressuretrol and wet-return

Thanks for the responses.



01) I'll replace the Gorton Angle Vapor Equalizing Valves on the radiators with the plugs. Is there a disadvantage to having the air-valves on the radiator if no issues with the "ball check" and dry return vents? The red flag for me was when I read an article titled "Bad Practice on Two Pipe Steam". The article mentions that if the Theromstatic trap fails closed, adding the air-valve, wrong to begin with, but works to release air. But the drawback being that steam condenses in the radiator and has no place to go since the trap has fail closed. But what if the issue was the air-vents on the dry-return only and those where replaced. By having the air-valves on the radiators, will that redundant or will it affect the performance of the system and the amount of heat coming from the radiator?



02) I had no idea that the return elbows had a "ball check" until I saw mention of it here in various threads. Also someone had linked to this article (pdf) on two pipe steam system that has a diagram of it.



03) The internal air holes. Is that the Air Vent Opening where the water seal is located? Not sure, but is there any way I can tell if the hole may be clogged by paint or dirt?



04) The Maid-O-Mist I replaced is the #1, 3/4" x 1/2" Main Vent Valve, with the Gorton Main #1. Wrong listing by me as 04 (see pic for correction). I replaced it because I read where the Gorton is considered a better made valve.



05) From the first pictures posted is that a check valve (painted white) that bridges the dry-return with the wet-return? There is also another one at the opposing end of the basement where the other dry-return joins with the wet-return. Also where the wet-return approaches the boiler is that a check valve as well (painted red)?



06) From what I gather then, I do not have a Hartford Loop. After I read "What you should know about Hartford Loops" by Dan Holohan is when I started examining my steam heating system.



07) On several other similar posts, someone mentioned that their wet-return gets very hot. It was mentioned that it should not be very hot to touch. My wet-return is cool to touch. If the boiler is active and we increase the thermostat, it will become warm to touch. At least that is what I've noticed this season. There are times over the years where it does get very hot.



08) I'll shop for a Vaporstat. Any recommendations on model/make that would suit the boiler/setup I have?



09) On the Presuretrol (PA404A 1009), the lowest stamped setting indicated is 0.5 lbs. should I slide the tap all the way down? I read on several other posts, the recommendation to have the differential dial located inside the unit set at "1". Looking at the inside (see pic), the internal differential dial has no mark or arrow to indicate its "set" position. How do I determine what it’s set at, if it works at all? Oh, feels like the slider tab is fixed. Can't get it to move down or up.



Cal

radonc

Presuretrol PA404A 1009

Hi Fizz,

I've listed several questions above your post. Amongst them is one about the Presuretrol. It appears to be stuck in that position. I cannot slide the tab down or up. I've included some pictures of inside the unit.

Again, thanks to all for your responses.

Cal

radonc

User manual for Presuretrol PA404A

Found another thread where someone point to the user manual. I adjusted the Main Scale Indicator by turning the main scale set point screw until indicator is at the lowest 0.5. But I'm still not certain of how to adjust the differential dial. No notches or arrow. I see from the manual that the PA404A (0.5 - 9) is Additive Differential.

fixitguy

Richardson Rocks

These are great systems. It is worth spending time and money to get them perfect. New double controls as recommended, updated close in piping and venting are a great investment. If this is beyond your capabilities get a hold of a steam man who knows these systems. By the way, I've never seen a ball check fail, although sometimes knuckleheads have removed the ball. Amazing how steam works even when it is all screwed up.

Fizz

Pressuretol setting

Hi Cal,

Don't know how your pressuretrol settings work, but you asked what would be a good vaporstat, I went with the Honeywell L408J-1009, 0-16 oz, per recommendations of this site.  Agree with later post re: the accolades for the Richardson System.  The return els are very resilient, last forever, my only problem was with some of radiator valves sticking, which I replaced with Mepco regulating valves.

radonc

So far, so good

SteamHead; Fizz; fixitguy; jStar, thank you so much for the information. Fizz, I'll look into picking up the Vaporstat. I removed the Gorton air-valves on the radiators as SteamHead and everyone recommended and placed back the original "plugs" that were there. Probably from when the house was built, pre 1917. The plugs as I call them are solid (see pic above). Looks like where a bleeder hole would be. But from what I'm reading, steam radiators do not require bleeding. So I guess they were made into the radiators (1917) to release air as well if issues occurred. I can see that they were really in tight for over 90+ years. Anyway, the radiators are heating well (as before), so the "ball checks" are working well. I guess there was never an issue with them. I've adjusted the Pressuretrol to its lowest 0.5 and slightly turn the differential wheel so that "1" is under the metal arm piece that is making contact with the wheel (see pic above). Again as I mentioned above there is no etching or arrow to indicate how to set the differential, as far as I can tell. The .pdf user manual I downloaded doesn't say much about it.



This is what I'm guessing may have happened 20+ years ago. The radiator in one of the end rooms wasn't heating up, so the line was traced back to the dry-return and probably saw that the air-vents that were there may have failed. BTW, one of the vents is hard to get to because a small little room for tools was built in that area and hid that vent. When access to the vents were made, they were replaced with proper main air vents (valves). But for some reason Hoffman & Gorton 1/8" Angle Steam Radiator Air Valves were also placed on the radiators (9), when it wasn't necessary. The "plugs" were removed, probably being there since the radiators were manufactured (1917), and the air-valves put in place. I look at it as being redundant. The problem was already fixed by having replaced the failed air-vents on the dry-return 20+ years ago. But I guess no harm done, since heat was coming from all the radiators all these years after the vents were replaced.



All I'm trying to do is better understand the heating system I have and correct any redundancies to better optimize it's performance. So it appears that there was never an issue with the "ball check". I thank you all for pointing out the Pressuretrol, since I had no idea of it's function until it was pointed out here coupled with the many articles I've been reading from Dan and other threads here on that topic. So slowly I'm able to fine tune the over-all system. I'm now looking at the Auqastat to see if it's properly set for the boiler I have. I'm planning on picking up Dan's book "The Lost Art of Steam Heating". In another thread, SteamHead mentioned that the Richardson stem system is discussed on pg 263. I'm having a difficult time finding information on the boiler I have. It's a coal burning boiler that was converted to oil. Yes, it's very very old. I realize that I have to replace it with a more efficient boiler soon. I've uploaded some pics with markings. It would help if anyone can tell me the age of this boiler and where I can find some information on it.



This all started for me when there was mention of a "Hartford Loop". I had no clue at the time what a Hardford loop was and if that was what I had.



Again, thanks for all the suggestions and recommendations.

Cal

SWEI

radiator vent tappings

allowed the same castings to be used for one-pipe steam, two-pipe steam, or hot water systems.



Boiler nameplate looks like it was set up for oil from the factory.  The "American Standard" at the top leads me to suspect a manufacture date of 1967 or later.  For the record, http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/927/297.pdf shows the Oakmont with oil trim offered in 1957, but the castings look like they originated in the 1940's.

radonc

Manufacture Date

Thanks Swei. Just spotted this in the upper right. Not sure if it is a date of manufacture.

SWEI

could well be

That square gauge looks older.  I haven't seen enough nameplates to know if they started putting "American Standard" on them before they actually changed the name of the company.  Given that the old (two) names are at the bottom of the nameplate, it may be the case.  Sheet metal looks 1950s-esque as well.



Whatever the age, you've gotten your money's worth out of it for sure.