Air coming out of the top of Carlin burner

monkeymeetsrobot

Hi,



I'm having an issue with my Carlin EZ-1HP.  There is air blowing out of the area circled in the picture, I am thinking this isn't normal.  It's been happening for a long time, the burner gets dirty and the CAD cell starts running high every month or so with minimal use.  I'm wondering if rather than the air being pushed to the furnace most of it is escaping through here and preventing the oil from burning cleanly.  I've had the furnace serviced several times by an HVAC company and they've been attempting to figure out why the burner keeps clogging up.  They haven't mentioned this as an issue, but it doesn't seem right.  Additionally, the air from from this area smells of unburned oil.



I'd appreciate any help, I'm very frustrated and it doesn't seem like I'm getting anywhere (except poor!)

chapchap70

What were the readings when they tested?

Did your HVAC company do combustion testing?  What was the over fire and breech drafts?  Even if the ignitor is not sealed properly, there more than likely should not be air coming out of there.  It sounds like there is a blockage somewhere that is preventing the flue gasses from getting out through the vent.  If they did not test, they don't know and is why they keep having to come back.



When you said cad cell reading were high, were you referring to the ohm reading?  What is normal and what is high?  Do the readings revert to normal with no work being done on the unit?



 

JStar

Burner

That air loss could be the cause, but as mentioned, the combustion and draft results will confirm it.



Where are you located? We can help you find a competent contractor.

billtwocase

that is not your problem here

sounds like you need a trained/seasoned tech. Beckett has a gasket for AFG's that seal the transformer/electronic ignitor, never found one on a Carlin. Is this a direct vent possible Buderus boiler?

monkeymeetsrobot2

Air coming out of the top of Carlin burner

chapchap70: Yes, they did combustion testing.  They had a small probe that went into the line of the exhaust (not shown in the picture, on the other side) and there was a device with a digital readout.  Normally they do a printout from it and attach it to the burner, but they did not last time.  I do mean the ohm reading.  Normal for this burner according to them is 1400-2200, it started out at 1300 or so and keeps going up.  They were last here in the first week of January, last run the reading was 1700.



billtwocase: Yes, it is a direct vent buderus.



They have also talked about putting in a power venter, though it doesn't seem as though it would help if all the air is escaping out of the top of the burner and not mixing properly.

billtwocase

I don't think

you are loosing enough static pressure from the base plate, unless they didn't tighten it down. Carlin EZ-1 is a great burner, but direct vent on "that" boiler is never a good choice. Power vent is not a solution either. I would go with a Riello burner on that, of even a Beckett NX. I am not a fan of that boiler no matter what burner it has, but yours has a lot going against it

monkeymeetsrobot2

Carlin manual

Looking at the manual for this model, carlin lists a part called "Gasket, transformer", number 20 on the attached picture.  I would say this appears to be in the same area as where the air is leaking from

billtwocase

so it does

those are probably thrown out by the time I get my hands on a troubled unit, but you still have other issues going on with it. Leaky air coming from the base plate is not deal breaker, if the burner is set up properly-pump pressure, plate, nozzle, etc. 

monkeymeetsrobot2

more pictures and combustion test printout

Took some more pictures and found a more recent combustion test thing.  This readout is from when they left, about a month later it wouldn't start.



Also, no gasket, but as you say it probably doesn't matter?  I shouldn't see oil buildup like shown in the pictures, right?

billtwocase

how long

is the post-purge set for?

billtwocase

also

that control has been replaced. It needs to be programmed for a pre/post purge. How burnt are those wires for the heater?  #'s look good. I can now see why there is no gasket. It was cooked to a crisp

monkeymeetsrobot2

post purge

Unfortunately I am not sure...does 3 minutes sound correct?  I think I may have heard that at some point.  I wasn't able to find it displayed on the honeywell control.

billtwocase

3 min

would be a minimum post-purge. there is a lot of heat coming back down that tube

monkeymeetsrobot2

so

If the numbers look correct (and they always look like that when they leave) is there anything I can ask them to look at?  It's really once a month right now, very frustrated.



Based on what you've seen, any reason to think the power venter would help?  Should I ask them to replace the burner?  Any suggestions?

monkeymeetsrobot2

also

I went through the installer menu, there is no option to set the post purge that I can see.  It's a honeywell R7284 (no letter afterwards).  There is no burner off delay either.

monkeymeetsrobot2

i'm simple

I'm not sure how many times I must have gone past the blower off delay in the menu, finally saw it.  It was set to 00:15.  I upped it to 3 minutes.  Should I also set the valve on delay (currently 00:00) to at least 00:15 so when the oil starts burning it's already attempting to clear out the exhaust?

monkeymeetsrobot2

Update - Hard Lockout

Burner keeps hard locking out now after setting the burner off delay to 3:00, "Flame Proven, During Off Delay" error according to the controller.



Based on what I understand the burner off delay to mean, I would expect the ignitors to stop firing once in the burner off delay countdown, and for the burner to just move air without burning oil.  The ignitors do not turn off, they just keep firing.  The ohms reading is around the same as when the burner is on, leading me to believe oil is being burned.



Shouldn't the ignitor turn off at this point, and the oil stop flowing?



I also tried setting "Spark During Run" to no (it was set to yes) which sets the ignitors to interrupted vs intermittent ignition.  The ignitors stayed on the entire time the furnace ran.  Is it possible I have a defective controller?  Shouldn't the ignitor have turned off after the flame was proven in interrupted mode?

Robert O'Brien

Flame during prepurge

Bad or miswired oil valve or possibly a bad control,although I doubt that. You need someone knowledgeable with oil burners and a powerventer or chimney will solve most of your problems.

monkeymeetsrobot2

Miswire

Robert, it's funny you should suggest a missswire, I believe I supported that theory while testin last night. .I was reading the install manual for the controller, you can wire it up so interrupt mode works or so intermittent works.



Based on the testing I did last night, it would seem as though it was wired up to be intermittent only, which I believe puts ignition on the same circuit as the blower motor. This would seem to explain why during burner off delay the igniter stays on regardless. I am going to pop off the control today and have a quick look.

billtwocase

I would find a pro

seems like they installed this control, but didn't wire it properly. There should be a short prepurge, and lengthy post purge, in your case 3-5 min. A power vent would do that within itself. I don't think you need to spend all that money on a chimney or power vent from what I can see. It seems to be unqualified techs learning at your expense. A chimney is always the way to go. 

monkeymeetsrobot2

To be fair

To be fair, my current techs didn't do the install, it was done by a guy recommended by our oil company who may not have all been there, he seemed to maybe be on drugs. I dropped him for the current guys.



I am surprised based on what you are saying that they didn't notice any problems, the guy is coming Monday morning so I'll run the ideas by him then. Still haven't had a chance to check the wiring, will reply back later with the results.

icesailor

1700 Ohms:

I had a problem with a EZ-1 on a power venter. With the 60200 control I put on. the Ohm readings over 1500 were such that it was close to what the 60200 could take before recycling or locking out when running. I seem to remember that 700 to 1,000 is a better number. Because of high wind expectations, I had to run the SS1 Side Shot for the expected high winds on the PV location. In low wind times, the draft could suck the flame away and the Ohms would go up. When they got high enough, it would recycle. I only found it when I was standing there doing something else and it recycles in my presence. It had good numbers. The boiler/burner had been located in a small cellar with no make up air. I gave it make up air with an air box on the burner. Before, it would recycle PV air backwards through the burner. I found it by burning my hand when pulling the electrode assembly. I added more make up air by installing a 12" RC backwards in a door/panel into the ventilated crawl space.

That burner is sucking backwards indicated by the soot behind where the eye "sees" the flame.

I didn't do the original install. I had so many problems with it that the caretaker called someone else after I finally got it worked out. Its their problem now.

I was talking to the Service manager of an oil company last night. He stated that every balanced flue boiler they had in their service base, they had removed for a Power Venter of a metal chimney. They were simply terrible and just a really bad idea.

monkeymeetsrobot2

wiring update

Finally had a chance to pop off the controller...what a mess.  Basically, valve, ignitor, and motor are all wired together.  There's quite a bit of other stuff there too I don't recognize (limit, L1 - L4), but this explains why trying to do the blower motor off delay locks me out...whenever the blower motor is on, the valve is open and the ignitor is running.  Also explains why I can't do interrupt.



If one of you professionals saw something like that in a house, would it raise a red flag?

billtwocase

what that tells me

is someone can't read, and or shouldn't be allowed to perform service or installs. You need someone else to get it right

pipeking

why was the controler mest with?

 was this controler an upgrade u paid for or somthing your oil company wanted on the burner? i do tons of boiler installs for a couple oil company's and they prefer the genisys. also they want to set up the burner. so i do everything except for burner setup, which is ussually the norm cuz they sell u your oil. i say this cuz the controller comes already wired from the factory (rite), and if it was changed how did the oil company overlook it? it's obviously is wired wrong.

Al_Gregory

Check Limit And L1 wires

I find alot of times when people install these controls they put the red wire on the red and the black on the black but with Carlin its usually reversed. If it is you wont get a post purge. One that control cycles like a hundred times you cant reprogram it