frozen cracked radiators

beaker

Hi, I'm hoping someone may be able to guide me on a problem. I recently bought a house with a single boiler serving 2 units. Unfortunately the system wasn't winterized correctly and many of the radiators broke on both the first and 2nd floors.



I would like to possibly splice together broken radiators to make a few good ones and then buy the rest from wherever I can find them. I am concerned though that the piping may have cracked as well. I didn't see any leaks in the pipes when I opened the valve by the boiler and drained the water - what is the likelihood that the pipes are broken too?



Also if I can get all the radiators and if the piping is ok, I would like to buy 1 new boiler and split the systems. Is it possible to change the system to accommodate that.



Thanks for your input.

Paul48

Everything

It all has to be pressure tested.It's all bad until proven otherwise.Do you plan on doing the radiator work yourself? It is labor intensive, and not cheap. Start pricing things out.

beaker

cracked rads

My husband and I are planning on trying to do as much of this as we can ourselves - My thought would be that the pressure testing needs to happen first for the piping...... but how exactly to do that I don't know (can't find any youtube video). Obviously at some point we are going to need a professional, but we would like to do as much as possible ourselves.



We had a couple of hvac contractors come give estimates - but they both said that we should just put in new forced air units - I really dislike that idea.

nicholas bonham-carter

Frozen pipes

I am assuming it's a hot water system. As water freezes, it expands, and it is the long lengthe of any part which can be subject to extreme pressure, such as not only the radiators, but also the long lengths of piping.

Why not fill it up to the first floor and see where it leaks in the piping.

Luckily, there is pex tubing for replacing all the piping if it should be necessary .--NBC

beaker

cracked rads

Yes, it is a hot water system. The rads cracked during a light freeze over the course of 4 days. I am thinking that the basement didn't get to below freezing. We noticed the damage to the rads shortly after it happened and after a thaw. There didn't appear to be any leaking from the pipes in the basement - only at the top of the outer fins of the rads on the 1st and 2nd floors. We immediately drained the water and didn't notice any leaking while it was draining. How would we go about testing the piping and the rads that don't seem broken?

nicholas bonham-carter

Frozen radiators

Post some pictures of the radiators, and perhaps we can see if they could be spliced together as you said.

To test the basement piping, the system will have to be filled up to the ground floor. Any frozen radiators will have to be removed, and the supply and return capped as you continue filling up to the top floor.--NBC

Paul48

NBC

Compressed air? Less messy

nicholas bonham-carter

Testing methods

That might take a big compressors, and everything would have to be capped off right at the start. Maybe this system has isolation or balancing valves on both sides.--NBC

Charlie from wmass

not big compressor

a small one and a bit more time. I love radiators, I just do not think mixing and matching will be a good use of time or resources. The push nipples often need replaced with new ones. Photos of the radiators would be helpful. You could use this as a chance to properly sized the radiators to the heat load.

beaker

cracked rads

OK, maybe we need someone to come take a look at this - if anyone knows of someone in the Milwaukee area who is experienced with this sort of thing I would really appreciate a referral.

Alan Welch

Cast iron or copper fin tube radiators ?

It makes a difference.   If it is copper  " radiators' it is not that bad, cast iron is a different story. copper baseboard heating elements are easily repaired

icesailor

Winterizing:

It would seem to me that whomever "winterized" the building was negligent. If someone hired someone that sold themselves as professional winterizers, they should have had insurance and should be responsibility for that. If I drain a house and there is damage, I have insurance to pay for my liability. If it was a bank owned property and they foreclosed on someone, they should have by law, assumed responsibility. Banks and Mortgage holders have gotten away with this sham by claiming no responsibility of not being responsible for the property at time of sale, But they are responsible for maintaining the property from the time of foreclosure. If they hired some fool to drain it and he didn't know how to drain the system, he should be held responsible for negligence or at least being negligent.

I can tell you absolutely for a fact that the building didn't have that much damage to the system because of a few days of freezing weather. It must be really cold in the 20's for days for all that to have happened. And there couldn't have been any heat in the building. If some "contract" bank worker didn't make the call to a competent person to winterize the building, someone is responsible. If you owned the property when the damage occurred, then don't blame anyone but yourself.

The number one cause of broken hydronic (wet) systems by inexperienced "drainers" is failure to open flow checks or zone valves. But you don't get broken radiators because the water drains back through the returns, even on second floor radiators. Basement piping doesn't usually break unless under "special" circumstances. If you find any broken pipes in a basement area, it will be in the cast iron fittings that will crack. Malleable fittings just stretch and weep. Unless you are a plumber only and don't drain the boiler at all. If there aren't any broken plumbing pipes (potable water pipes), the boiler and heating system wasn't drained.

The job you face is not a DIY project. Professionals who are competent in doing these jobs don't want to bother because they are extremely labor intensive but short on material profit. The first thing that needs to be done is to disconnect any obviously defective.broken radiators which will include removing the supply and return ells and capping of the lines. When you think you have all the broken radiators disconnected, you can then test with air. Any air compressor that will develop 100#  of air or will run a nail gun will work. I use a less than $200 "hot dog tank" air compressor and have used one for over 15 years. It isn't the pressure, you don't pump it up to over 25# anyway. I just set the outlet regulator to 25#.

If you have broken pipes in the walls, it was off for more than a few days.

Funny how the airheads have only one solution for your problems. Forced Air.

Count how many broken radiators you have and post some of them. Some here will help you with decisions. But don't consider it a DIY job without professional help. You'll need it.

icesailor

Winterizing: Sorry

Sorry for the duplicate post

bob eck

Cracked radiators

Look on Craig's list for used radiators that home owners have take out that are still good. Where are you located at?

beaker

cracked rads

As for the "winterization" - it was done by some company hired by HUD...... unfortunately HUD doesn't do any repairs and only gave us about $700 credit for the damage. It's a great house and had dozens of offers on it - so we chose to take it despite the damage. It was all fine when we put the offer in then 2 weeks later all the copper was stolen and the radiators cracked (not vandalism - freeze damage)..... huge bummer!



We live in Milwaukee and have been looking on Craigslist for replacements..... but first we will try out the tips we received here for pressure testing. Luckily we have a compressor and other tools that will come in handy. Thanks for all of the tips. And I'm sure that at some point we will be having a professional come in..