Munchkin boiler

Smith19

I have searched the wall and found many issues with Munchkin and HTP boilers. I assume they are generally poor quality? I have also heard bad things directly from techs.





cheers

icesailor

Care:

With proper care and service, they are as good as any Mod Con on the market. Parts are available but you need to know how to service them. Some service persons who complain about them don't even have a digital combustion analyzer and they have never read the instruction manual.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Munchkins

I have a long history with Munchkins; we installed many.  In the beginning, there was bad workmanship (no pipe dope on the relief valves, etc.) and bad components (pressure switches, blowers, etc.), but at the time, they were the best mod/con boiler this country had to offer.  No getting around it, they had the size that fit your job and if you got everything right and serviced them correctly, they worked.  There's one in my basement and 50,000 BTU's has kept me warm and with abundant hot water [Horicell H-300 (personal use discount, thank you very much)].



I think they've made some good changes with the new Munchkin Contender, but I haven't tried one yet.

Mark Eatherton

Try checking ANY boiler manufacturer on this site...

It's not a question of IF, but more a matter of WHEN, and then it really boils down to the response of everyone in the chain from the manufacturer to the end user.



Every boiler ever made has had issues of one sort or another at some point in time, and quite honestly, for the most part, 95% (guessing) of all modcon boilers out there have the same heat exchanger, gas valve/blower assembly and SIT controller. The biggest problem is that the people installing these beauties do NOT follow the instructions as it pertains to installation and maintenance. Even the BEST boiler in the world will suffer if improperly installed and improperly maintained.



Don't purchase your heating system by product name alone. Remember that whom ever installs your "system" is going to become married to that system for as long as you can tolerate them. And if done right, that should be for life... If not done right, it could end up as some sort of legal action...



Do your homework on the installing contractor. Get out of your comfort zone and go see their work in the field. Ask the consumer tough questions, like "Have you had any "issues" with the system? How did the installing contractor handle it? Was their response timely? Were there any charges associated with the service? Did they provide you with a commissioning report? Are you and your family members comfortable in all places at all times of the year? What did your fuel bills do after the installation?



Don't focus on price alone. Focus on proposal content. If it's a one pager, ask a LOT of questions. Some less than scrupulous contractors will low ball to get their foot in the door, then change order you to death, and themselves into profitability. A good and complete/concise proposal is a minimum of 3 pages, and as many as 6 depending upon the scope of work to be performed, plus manufacturers cut sheets.



BTW, I have a Munchkin in my Denver basement as well, and other than some minor issues, it has worked flawlessly for around 8 years. I have a Lochinvar modcon at my mountain home that has worked flawlessly as well.



Heads up, and eyes wide open...





ME

unclejohn

I like the

The little fellows those munchkins. Most of the problems are poor installs. I worked on one in Georgetown in DC that was installed behind a pantry wall. All the food from the shelves had to be removed before you could get to it. It was mounted on the wall with no more the 4" clearance in the front. I had to replace the supply sensor by feel. The flue pipe was not glued above the boiler and was dripping right down onto the controller. Had to cut the whole bathroom ceiling out to repair the leak. The customer wants do know why I won't go back. No I didn't install it.

SWEI

as long as they are properly installed and cared for

they will perform well and last.  When they were new, an unfortunate number of installers used them as drop-in replacements for conventional cast iron boilers, which did not work out well.  Quite a few died early deaths thanks to clueless installation and lack of required annual maintenance.  The Giannoni water-tube heat exchanger on which they (and many other mod/cons) are based does not tolerate idiocy, but at this point it is well understood.



We now have a number of mod/cons available which are built around a lower restriction fire-tube heat exchanger design.  These require less pumping energy and are more tolerant of hard water.  They also need less frequent cleaning.

Smith19

One pipe hydraulic sperator

I did read in a manual for an HTP boiler (makes munchkin, I believe) that the supply and return have to share a special hydraulic separator. This makes sense, seeing that you have to have a cool temperature return to the boiler, but If this is left out will there be major issues?

Steve Whitbeck

P/S piping

The only time that You don't need primary/secondary piping or a hydraulic seporator is if there is only one big loop - not zoned in any way. And enough flow to satisfy the boiler. 1 gallon flow for each 10,000 BTU of boiler input.