Staem Balancing Act

SLC

First I'd like to say this site is great and full of knowledge. Thank you to all that have shared...I have a 70+ 2 story house with steam heat. Same issues I have read with balancing. 2nd floor takes longer to heat than the first. Larger radiators on 2nd floor, smaller on first floor. Main pipe is 2 inch black and laterals look like 1.5 inch. Thermostat located on first floor. No air valves have been replaced since I've lived here (11 yrs) and figure its time to replace them.The boiler is 2yrs old, one pipe system with wet return. 2 air valves on the ends of mains. Reading the posts I would like to get opinions on what size rad valves and main air valves before I start replacing them. I have attached a diagram of my system along with a few pictures. Not sure what the cut in setting is, looks like 3-4 psi according to scale. Thank you in advance for any help. I have purchased the books recommended and they are great....

nicholas bonham-carter

Where to start

Can't see what type of main vents you have, so put a gorton #2 on each dry return as a start.

Get a good low-pressure gauge (0-3psi) next to the pressuretrol and get the pressure down below 1.5. Wait a while on the radiator vents, as they often last decades, if not abused.

I am surprised you don't have more issues, as your supply piping is very wrong, with small risers, no equalizer, and all in copper. It should be redone correctly in steel pipe this summer.

Have you ever thought your gas bills were high?--NBC

SLC

Absolutley

Yes indeed, gas prices high here in jersey, at least in this house. I can't read the main air valves either so Gorton #2's it is...Do you agree from the cut in picture, that it is set now for 3-4 psi? I guess I slide the switch down below 2 psi. Are you referring to the copper pipe coming out of the boiler, that should be replaced? It is the same size, just copper. The vertical risers to rads are black pipe. Thanks you for your response and your input.

nicholas bonham-carter

adjusting pressure

turn the screw above the sliding pointer to move it down to 2, and check the white wheel inside which should be set to .5 the result should be pressure of no more than 1.5 psi.

download a copy of the manual for your boiler, and compare what you have with the piping instructions, as far as layout, and diameters, and i think you will see quite a difference. the end result of poor piping is wasted gas [5-10%?]

the problem with copper pipe is it expansion potential to put undue stress on the sections.--nbc

Gordo

That "Header"!

I am not thinking very kind thoughts about that installer, to say the least.



You should get that header replaced by a proper steamfitter with threaded steel pipe to manufacturer's instructions (they are the minimum standard) or better. 



I'd insulate all bare steam pipe in the basement.  Your basement will be cooler and your house warmer.

SLC

Thanks

Thanks for you input...I will have to seek out a professional to replace the header pipe. Your right between that and the mains not being insulated I can see I'm loosing a lot of heat in the basement before it even gets to the rads, as it's always warmer in the basement than anywhere in the house. Again thanks for the input..this is a GREAT site..

icesailor

"Proper Steamfitter"

What Gordo says about a "Proper Steamfitter" needs clarification. I do not consider myself a "proper steamfitter" but I would never have piped that replacement like that. But I find that most boiler installers who only have experience with low pressure hot water systems would pipe a replacement hot water boiler like that. If you take the picture of that boiler piping that shows the copper rising out of the boiler and the "header" crossing over on the branches of the tees, and the prospective "fixer" doesn't see anything wrong with it, he's not your man.

It's even wrong for a hot water system.

It's just plain wrong.

That installation manual that comes with a boiler isn't there for decoration. It is a legal document that says that if you don't do it like this (the drawing), YOU are responsible if it doesn't work, not us.

If you don't understand the concepts, it's like reading comic books that are written in Russian.

You didn't replace the boiler because the system was working, the boiler was leaking?

the first question out of someones mouth when they come to looking at something like yours that isn't working properly isn't "Did it work at one time? Did it work better before they changed the boiler"? If the answer is yes, then changing all the vents and insulation isn't going to fix the root problem. Fix that first.

Is there even an equalizer on that?

RobG

Lovely Piping

Do you think the installer did a combustion test?

I agree with all of the above posts. Get the piping fixed before you waste money on vent replacement. you will be amazed at the fuel savings. Use the "find a contractor" tab on the site or let us know where you are and we can recommend someone. DO NOT let the original installer in your house! 

Steamhead

Joisey Steam Men

can be found on the Find a Contractor page of this site. Search by zipcode or by state. Two that I'm familiar with are Gateway Plumbing and Ecuacool, you can't go wrong with either one.



I'd jump on this, but the travel time from Baltimore would be an issue ;-)

SLC

Thanks again

Thanks for all the input.....Not sure if they did combustion test..Bottom line, the old boiler took a dump 2 years ago on New Years Eve. Boiler cracked and water leaked out, was smoking almost caught on fire, no safety water valve on old system. Anyway this companies sticker was on file so I called and left it in there hands. Knowing what I know now, thanks to this site and everyone taking time out of their busy schedule to share their knowledge, I am a WISER man. Anyway I too am in business for myself but in the satellite communication field for over thirty years, and have seen and heard it all. Now I know when I hire a steam professional, I'll know what to listen for......Thanks again to everyone.