A post Steamhead responded to a couple years ago

Joe V_2

...has been gnawing at me. Ihave a two pipe system that we identified as a trane vapor system. New boiler installed three years ago and no issues. but, I believe he said my dry returns should be warm to touch but they have always been too hot to touch. Measured today with an Ir gun and measured 195 degrees as they turn downward below water line.



There is no F&T trap installed. Just two loops of steam that delivers to rads and turns around and comes back to boiler. nothing but steam so I figured maybe I didnt described my system well or I misunderstand my system and what I was told.



Typically, tstat calles for heat and boiler builds to about one, maybe two ounces until the tstat is satisfied. Usually, 15-20 minutes. No water hammer.



It has always bothered me that Steamhead said pipes should be warm when they are as hot as the main header. What am I missing? Time to review and learn.



Happy New Year to all! May it be Peaceful, Healthy and happy!

JStar

Steam

It's relative. 195 is warm compared to 215. As long as they never go above that, there should be no problem.

Steamhead

Do these dry returns

drain the condensate from the ends of the steam mains? Where are the vents located- at the ends of the dry returns?



Also- I seem to remember talking to someone on the phone about a Trane system, was that you?

Joe V_2

that,

is the answer I was hoping for... but like I said, I need to review my system once in a while and this has been bu.gging me.

Joe V_2

Hi Steamhead, no, we have never

spoken over the phone. the vents are at the ends of the mains when they go vertical to bottom of hartford loop. I installed this boiler nearly four years ago which is when I said my returns were hot.



Like I said, no issues with performance but I do want to know what is normal and what is not.

Steamhead

In that case

you probably are running too much pressure or have some leaky traps, or both. The dry return on this system should never be so hot that you can't touch it.



You should get in touch with a Steam Man- where are you located?

Charlie from wmass

does each radiator have two pipes?

or do you just have a split loop single pipe system? Did you ever post photos?

Joe V_2

Maybe a sketch

...Is worth a thousand words...

I'm in North Carolina and this area is not exactly a hot bed for residential steam professionals.  Mostly industrial/commercial but the burners on those boilers are bigger than my IN-5. 

I'm not worried about the system.  The water level is very steady and I heat the house on 2oz/sq in in 20ish minutes.  Traps are fine.  A very silent system that only adds about a hundred bucks/month to my gas bill during heating season.  But, as I said, I remember being told the returns should be warm to touch and they are not.  And, I can't see why they would be when you see the sketch.  Maybe I shouldnt be calling these pipes dry returns!

Dave in QCA

2-pipe terminology is confusing again

When folks refer to the dry return on a 2-pipe system, their usually referring to the condensate return lines where they are above the waterline of the boiler.  It is these dry returns that should not be so hot that you can't touch them.



On a 1-pipe system, the dry return is actually the end of the main, which is carrying air, steam, and all of the condensate return.  In a 1-pipe, it is called a dry return until it drops below the water line.   To avoid this confusion on a 2-pipe system, I like to refer the these as "end of main drips", because that is pretty much what they are. 



Yes, it is normal for these to be HOT.  Steam is coming all the way to the vent and condensated from the steam main will be quite hot as well.

Joe V_2

Thanks

For the clarification! I was clearly confused. Sad thing is, I may have known this at some point but forgotten. It seemed important to ask again. thanks.

Steamhead

That's correct

at the point marked 1, there's no problem with it being that hot.