Can someone look over this setup?

Jabbott1

I'm helping a friend out with the steam heat in his house. Certain parts of the house never get hot and others get really hot.

Its a single pipe system with a  40 foot main that wraps around 3/4's of the house with 1 gorton 1 on it and a return that's on the basement floor that wraps around the other 1/4 of the house. I put a second gorton 1 on it and have 2 more on order for a total of 4. I also plan on insulating all the piping.

I also took some pics of the piping if anyone can comment on whether its set up correctly or not.

Rod

Need More info

Hi- What's the make and model of the boiler? Have you measured the radiators and got a total EDR?

- Rod

Jabbott1

edr

the edr was caculated when the boiler was put in a year ago. don't remember what it was, but the boiler was sized properly.

BobC

Make a list

That looks like a Dunkirk boiler. The near boiler piping looks reasonable, do all the mains have consistent slope and do they slope towards or away from the boiler? Is there any banging or load hissing going on when the boiler is making steam? Does the water in the sight glass bounce around a lot when making steam?



What does the pressure gauge read when it's making steam and what does it read when it has been off for a while? I see two Gorton #1 air vents on the steam main, what kinds of vents do the radiators have - assuming it's single pipe steam..



Make a list of which radiators work and which ones don't. indicate if they are on different steam mains and where they are on those mains so we can some idea of the problem. Also list the floor and type of vent for each radiator.



Bob

Jabbott1

answers

Is there any banging or load hissing going on when the boiler is making steam?



No none at all. maybe a little pipe expansion noise (creaking) when it heats up from a cold start.



Does the water in the sight glass bounce around a lot when making steam?



Yes it does.



What does the pressure gauge read when it's making steam and what does it read when it has been off for a while?



It's a 30 psi gauge so it pretty much never reads anything! It's set to .5 outside. I never took the cover off to look at the wheel.



I see two Gorton #1 air vents on the steam main, what kinds of vents do the radiators have - assuming it's single pipe steam..





most are varivalves. I haven't checked all the radiator valves yet. I wanted to get the mains and any other problems fixed before i played with the radiator vents.



There is one 2.5 inch main for everything except a 1" pipe that comes off the main right out of the boiler and goes to one radiator.

The radiators that are the coldest are the ones at the end of the main on the first floor in the living room. The second floor bedroom gets really hot by the time the living room gets warm enough to turn of the stat. And the radiator in the living room (end of the main) never really gets hot like the other radiators.

Paul48

I

was wondering how the end of that main could still be that tight to the ceiling? May be an optical illusion, just curious.The near-boiler piping looks pretty good. I think the transition to the main could be better.

Jabbott1

main

No it's that close, not an illusion from the pic. To get an idea, I had to knock out the sheetrock so the gorton valves would fit.

TomM

-

with all the setups we see here, the near boiler piping looks decent.  too bad they didn't spring for new fittings though, they always look nicer in fresh black.  And the gauge glass looks pretty brown, time for a blowdown?

TRob

Where's the main trunk insulation?

I suggest that proper insulation of the exposed main lines will more / faster steam available to the room radiators .

BobC

Turn the varivalves DOWN

Varivalves are very aggressive, try turning them all down so they are just about at minimum and see if that helps. In general it's best to vent the mains fast and the radiators slowly. Check to make sure the slope on the mains and radiator leadouts is consistent with no sags that might be pooling water and blocking the steam. From a cool start how much time does it take steam to fill the header and how much longer does it take that steam to get to the ends of the mains?



The boiler water looks pretty dirty, it might be time to flush it out to get rid of the dirty water. If you do wait till it's cold and fire it up to make steam when you fill it back up. Do you know when the boiler was last skimmed?



Bob

Jabbott1

timing

I'll try and time it tomorrow or wed when i can get there.

I think it was drained and filled at the end of last season.

BobC

No skim port?

If it was flushed and refilled a year ago then you probably just have to some drain water out of it till it runs clear and then refill it to the normal level and run the boiler to make steam to drive off any oxygen. It's a good idea to do that every 4-6 weeks to try and keep the boiler water clean.



I don't see any skim port on that boiler, is it on the other side of the boiler?



Bob

Jabbott1

skim port

yea, its not in the pics. The fill valve is the red handle on the copper pipe in the back of the second pic. It's hooked into the return on the floor. It gets its water from the hot water heater.

Rod

Throttle the VariValves!

Hi- As Bob already mentioned, turn all the Varivalves to their minimum setting and see how that works. At the minimum setting  they still have a fairly large venting capacity.  Wide open, they're about the same as 2 Gorton #1(s)  What maybe happening is that the very hot radiator are "hogging" all the available steam. What you are aiming for is for the steam mains to fill with steam  first and then fill the radiators at an equal pace. With having the vari valve vents on the radiators with a larger venting capacity the the main vents, the steam is getting diverted into the radiators without reaching the end of the main first. Dirty water maybe a problem too.

- Rod

Steamhead

It's a Utica PEG boiler

and it is NOT piped correctly. Utica specs two risers to the header and the installer only used one. And you will need more main venting- either a Gorton #2 or four Gorton #1 vents.



Have the boiler repiped. Here is one example of what it should look like:

Jabbott1

getting there

Ok, the 2 other gorton 1's came in yesterday so I went over to his house and installed them. So now there is a total of 4 gorton 1s on a 40ft main. I also discovered that the master bedroom which was getting way to hot has a varivalve on full, so i turned it down.

What a difference. From a cold start none of the radiators even get remotely hot until the main is hot at the end. Then the radiators start getting hot. I still have some balancing to do, but there is already a drastic difference in the house heating up quicker and more evenly.

Also I found this old valve that was clogged in the dining room. Anyone know anything about it. Was wondering if I should boil it or just get a new one.