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Beckett AFG

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Techman
Techman Member Posts: 2,144
in Oil Heating
w/ a genisis primary control , when boiler heats up close to temp of 180*f the primary shuts the burner off and the "flame light" blinks ,then a few minutes later the burner refires. This happens several times.I was at a friends house w/o my  tools, the flame looked fine, the flame sputtered just a little at the higher boiler temp also, not at startup after resetting the primary. It is a two pipe oil setup. Oil filter is clean. My beer was cold. Any ideas?

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  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
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    where's the tank?

    underground, above? Why the 2 pipe system? Filter is clean, how about the strainer, if it isn't a Webster? Vacuum readings? Pump pressure? OHM's reading? Compression or flare fittings? Boiler and nozzle specs?  Just a few thing to start with, and as always combustion results to end with.  Good luck
  • bill nye_3
    bill nye_3 Member Posts: 307
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    Hi limit ?

    Are you sure it is not cycling on and off because the aquastat is reaching high limit?
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    edited December 2012
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    AFG

    Hi guys,burner is 2-3 months new, oil tank is in ground, burner on 1st floor, original burner was 2 pipe so Frank copied what was there( hes a ac, refrig guy so what does he know!!!!),flare on supply, comp on return line,I'm going back Monday eve w/ my test/eff tools. burner was cycling on primary because of the Genesis "flame light " blinking.Thanks!. Boiler was cold when I got there as was my beer, and flame didnot sputter at all ,sputtered at around 170-180*
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
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    long run time, short oil supply

    sounds like it. Flame failure during operation will allow a recycle.If the oil still isn't there, than a lock-out will result.. Never compression fittings on an oil line, especially a return. The old boiler probably had an old primary, that is why this was not noticed before. The by-pass plug is in?  Is there a foot valve in tank?  Lines have been cleared? Lift and run of the lines? One or two stage pump?  Also bring your Beckett tool to review run cycles.
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
    edited December 2012
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    AFG

    The flame never went out ,just a little flame disruption for 1/4 of a sec or less ,then after4-5 disruptions then the temporary shut down. I think having compression fittings on the return line wouldn't be as bad as having the comp fittings on the supply line , supply has flare fittings..The bypass plug is in. Lift is maybe 6 - 8' run of line is 15-20' , lines not checked for being clear, not sure about a foot valve. Pump is the Beckett Cleancut pump , not sure if that is 2 stage or not.And I will bring my Beckett Genysis tool.Nozzle is a .75 A ,angle not known at this time.
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
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    that's all it takes

    that's why we love these new controls. If you have ever come across a wet soak boiler, you will appreciate that any change in flame stability, the control stops operation, and will recycle. If the flame is poor or not there, it locks out. It only takes a burp to shut it down. Also there shouldn't be any compression fittings, as I mentioned. I would consider checking the "Z" dimension and boosting the pump pressure. May be settings and adjustments, or fuel supply. Both will seem the same when the ignition drops out
  • earl burnermann
    earl burnermann Member Posts: 126
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    2 line?

    2 line oil lines are a thing of the past and will soon be the only reason for finding soot in a boiler now that NYS is burning low sulfur oil. With the better oil and a system set up using combustion tools, oil should burn as clean as gas.

    But 2 pipe systems will continue to soot. This is because of the higher pump vac needed to pull the maximum gph of the pump. Another problem is that vac leaks in the supply line will not knock the burner off. So you will have fluctuating pump pressures and soot.

    I would vac test the supply line. If there are no vac leaks then change to 1 pipe. If there are vac leaks then repair those leaks and 1 pipe. If you insist on having the pump 2 piped then have it 2 piped to a tiger loop. This will keep the vac down to just what is required to supply the gph of the nozzle. If you still have vac leaks in your line the tigerloop will not cover this problem up though.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
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    AFG

    Thanks for the replys.The vac started at 6" and kept creeping up to 12" where cavitation took over. I installed a fl x fl firematic in place of the supply fl fittings , blew out the supply w/ a CO2 cartridge,repiped for 1 pipe instead of 2 pipe and now no problems, then I had another beer. Its amazing what tools/instruments will do! Thanks again! Merry Christmas to ALL!
  • billtwocase
    billtwocase Member Posts: 2,385
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    glad to hear that

    CO2 will get you out of a jam, but it is risky to use. A nice push/pull pump is the way to go. Merry Christmas to you and yours also.
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
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    Fluctuations:

    Your symptoms sound more to me like sludge in the lines or filter(s). With rising vacuum pressure after a long run time, shows that it is restricted.

    Two pipe oil pumps only develop enough vacuum pressure to lift the product to the pump. No more. They have the ability to lift it higher than a one pipe pump, and to develop higher vacuum pressures to overcome restricted filters. If a two pipe pump is developing high vacuum(suction) pressures that are higher than when they first come on and deliver, it is almost always a symptom of restrictions in the fuel system.

    IMO
  • Techman
    Techman Member Posts: 2,144
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    AFG

    HI ice, I thought so also. Thats why I installed the 2nd firematic valve in the supply line.After repiping for 1 pipe and purging the supply line I shut the new firematic , hooked up the CO2 cartridge ,opened the firematic and blew back to the tank to help clean out the line. Oil filter is new.Beckett said the CleanCut pump moves 20 GPH, now it is moveing .75 thru the oil line.Thanks!
  • icesailor
    icesailor Member Posts: 7,265
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    CO2/Push Pull Pumps:

    I bought one of those CO2 blasters years ago. I used it once. I bought a 6 pack of cartridges with it. I think that there are still three rolling around in my oil burner tool box. My "Push/Pull Pump" consists of my compressor that only pushes. I take my trusty air compressor and with one of numerous adapters I have made up, I set the secondary regulator to zero and slowly close it down until I start to get air flow. It usually flows long before 3#. I let the air flow for a spell and slowly raise the air flow.

    With BioFuel, it is becoming a common practice. As far as the C)2, back a few years ago, when I was younger, we used those cartridges on jet powered model race cars. Those cartridges develop a lot more pressure than I let my air compressor.
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