About ready to give up on venting

mgmine

For those following my thread about mixing a Hoffman 75 and Gorton #2 thank you for your suggestions. At this point I don't think it can be a venting problem. I just shut down all the radiators on the warm side of the house and

left the ones on the cold side of the house on. I turned up the boiler

and ran around the basement to the main vents and the piping going to

all the radiators. What I found was that even with the radiators closed

(eliminating a venting question) the pipes on the warm side got hot much

quicker than the cold side, the side with the radiators tuned on. I

could put my hands on the pipes that were connected to the open

radiators because they were still cool  but not on the pipes connected to the radiators  that were closed the pipes were too hot.

Earlier on I had taken the two Gorton #2 main vents off  the side that gets warm

quicker and plugged the hole. This left the side that wont heat with a Gorton #2 and a Hoffman 75. The side with no main vent still heated quicker. I watched my pressure gauge but it was so low that it looked like 0

Bio

venting

As I suggested in the previous thread, close all radiators valves on both sides, remove main vents to the 3/4" fitting on both main vents and clock them when they reach the fittings where  your main vents are, the should be very close to each other, if not you have other issues, it looks like you're radiator venting is your problem though, it's time to post pictures of your system

Hap_Hazzard

Something's not right.

With the radiators turned off (I assume by the supply valves) and no main vent, the only way steam could be getting to that main and any connected piping would be if there are some pretty substantial leaks. This would allow the air to escape, but it would also allow the steam to escape, so you would notice a significant amount of water loss if nothing else. Have you been adding a lot of water to the boiler?

Enreynolds

I agree with bio

We need to see pictures of your system to rule out piping problems. Take pictures of your boiler installation froma a ways back, so we can trace piping, from all sides if possible.  Also take pictures of the end of mains and any drips to wet returns.  We can get a better idea of what is going on with these pictures.

Don't give up, help is here.

Eric

mgmine

removing the main vents.

I will have to get another 3/4" plug as I only have one on hand however when I plugged the side with the two Gorton's (the warm side) that side still got hot quicker. When I felt the piping it seemed to be getting warmer a little faster on the plugged side. What sort of pictures would help?  Could it be a steam issue? Last season the oil jet was changed to a smaller one from a 3 gallon per hour to a 1 1/2 gallon per hour.  

Bio

NO plugs

No plugs, leave it open, you want to see how fast steam makes it at the end, be ready to shut off boiler when it reaches the end  

mgmine

Main vents were back

To clarify when I shut down all the radiators on the warm side of the house I had put the main vents back on that side. So there was venting from the mains but not the radiators. I had previously taken the two Gorton's off to see if that would speed up the cold side, the side that had the one Gorton #2 and the Hoffman 75 but it didn't. I will take pictures of everything. Thanks to all for helping.

Bio

Both mains

Close all radiators suply valves on both sides of the mains and follow above post, no main vent should be on either main

mgmine

Pictures

Here are pictures of the piping. The mains go left and right from the boiler. The left side is the cold side. The first radiator is about 10 feet from the boiler it is large and heats slowly, the main then takes a 90 degree turn and runs about 24 feet with no radiators coming off it. It then takes another 90 degree and goes about 20 feet with three radiators off it. One radiator is always closed because it goes to an unused room. It ends with the Hoffman 75 and the Gorton #2. The right main goes about 10 feet the first radiator on the right side is a small one and heats very quickly. The main then takes a 90 degree turn for about 10 feet then another 90 degree turn, goes about 9 feet then another 90 degree turn in other words it makes a u turn.  From there it runs down the length of the house before making a final 90 degree turn and ending withe the two Gorton's. This side with all the turns is the side that heats the quickest.

gerry gill

interesting

piping job on that boiler. I'd start there.

Paul48

That

sort of creates 2 equalizers. It's a steam piping "Don't".

Bio

Repiping

As mentioned before, re-piping need to be done, if you're handy you can probably fix it with the right tools, or look for a Pro above in the "Find a contractor" section, where are you located?

Dave in QCA

Over venting radiators perhaps?

We all agree that the near boiler piping is wrong and should be changed, but it does seem mysterious that even with all of the radiators on the warm side shut off that the cooler side did not heat up.  I have some questions to try to better understand what actually happened.

When you ran the boiler with rads on only on the cold side, you indicated that the main stayed cool.  All of it?, or just the end where the main vents are?  Did any of the raidators get hot?  How long did the boiler run?  Did it shut off on the thermostat or on pressure at the boiler?  When it shut off, what was the pressure?



And the big thing that I am suspicious of, what vents are you usuing on your radiators?  Are they all the same, or an assortment?  If they are mixed up, make a list of your rads with the sq ft of each radiator and the vent that you are using on it.  



Over agressive vents on radiators can cause all kinds of problems.  Some systems will tolerate it, others will not.



At least, its worth taking a look at it.  The sage advice for venting is, "Vent your mains fast and your radiators slow, but complete."   And, what this means is if your radiators are vented too fast, main venting alone will not be able to balance the system.



I was working on a system once that had one radiator that would not heat.  Literally, it would NOT heat one bit!  Of course, this was also the room with the thermosat and the house had 12 foot ceilings, open staircases up to the third floor, etc.  When the boiler would fire, the system would heat up totally, the house temperature would swing wildly.  I was sure that the supply valve was broken!  What else could it be?  Turned out to be the result of agressive vents on the rads and very slow main vents.  Had to fix both to correct the problem.

mgmine

Not sure

Dave I'm not sure what the pressure was when it shut off or if it shut off because of the thermostat. I will have to watch things closer. The vents on the radiators are a mixture of different ones although I am going to replace them, I was going to use Gorton't but now I am going to use Hoffman 1A's so that I can adjust them. As far as the mains go what I noticed that going to the left (the cool side) the pipe off the main going to the first radiator about 10 feet away  was cold and that radiator was on. The piping to the first radiator on the warm side is also about 10 feet away was warm and that radiator was off. I will now take both main vents off as suggested and time how long it takes the steam to reach each end. 

Patrick_North

Not sure I followed you, but...

If you had the radiator valve (to clarify: not the vent) for a radiator turned off, then the pipe connecting the main to that valve should be all but cool to the touch, even when the main is hot.

 Here's a rough graphic.

The fact that it was hot (when you thought the valve was closed) suggests that the valve is broken in the open position or otherwise leaking.

Sounds like you may have a bunch of different issues plaguing your system. It's aggravating, but if you can try to handle them one at a time I bet you can clear things up quickly.

Good luck,

Patrick