Apartment convector issue

KarenK

When we bought our Brooklyn apartment recently,  it came with 3 convector radiators but no cabinets for them.  The super replaced the vents and pitched them.  At that point 2 of them started leaking.  He took them away and replaced the valves, not sure what else he did, but the leaks were fixed.  Gradually these radiators began to bang, especially in the early AM when they were first getting going.  That was in March, it became warm and the problem of course disappeared!



Now they are running again with the same issue.  Others in the building do not have this problem, except our neighbors who got a replacement radiator from the same super with the identical results.  Someone suggested that the pipes were improperly fitted.  We got a free consultation from someone who said the boiler was set way too high (I believe something like 8 for a 1-pipe system), and that he thought it was a system-wide issue.  From what I've read it seems like he is correct about the pressure, but I don't think that is the immediate cause of our problem since others in the building do not have it.



I could not find the proper cabinets online -- it appears that they are bought with the radiator part as a unit.  Could the same kind of person handle both of these jobs -- eliminating the banging and finding the proper cabinets?



Does anyone have any insight?  Thanks for any advice.



Karen

Hap_Hazzard

What kind of convectors?

Are these your basic fin-tube convectors or something more elaborate? Can you either post some pictures or give us some more details, like the size of the fins and tubes, the overall length of the unit and number of tiers, and the size of the pipe that's supplying it?



Just to eliminate the obvious, make sure the supply valve is fully open. If they are partly closed it will make them hammer every time.

KarenK

Picture and info

I'm attaching a picture of the radiator.  8" W x 38-39" L x 11" high by the valve.  The other one is a little smaller at about 29" L, and 2" higher due to the length of pipe from below.



I just took a rubber jar opener and was able to open them both a tiny bit more, but it's a very warm day today so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

nicholas bonham-carter

Unwanted hammering in Brooklyn

The air vent on your convector looks very large for such a small convector, which could be part of the problem, especially if the pressure is too high.

If the pressure is really as high as 8 psi, then that is dangerously high. Can you go above the super's head, and see if the head of the condo association will have a further survey of the system done. Just because others are not complaining, does not mean they have no problems. Over-pressure in a steam system can waste 20% of the fuel-what was your fuel bill lately?--NBC

ttekushan_3

that style convector

has really small passages and I have used them for two-pipe steam, but I wouldn't dream of using them for single pipe.



Having said that, the vent seems to be a Maid-O-Mist straight pattern vent. It is important to have the smallest orifice available on it, which is a #4. The orifice screws into the top.



BUT! you said:

"I just took a rubber jar opener and was able to open them both a tiny bit more, but it's a very warm day today so we'll have to wait and see what happens."



The hand valve must be fully open or fully closed! On single pipe, regardless of radiator or convector style, the valve is NOT for modulating. This could fully explain the banging.



Open the valve all the way and see what happens. It may very well solve the problem even though that convector element doesn't lend itself to this sort of single pipe operation. At least it is fairly short.

Hap_Hazzard

Is that an ARCO multifin?

If it is I'm guessing the EDR would be about 50? You can't tell exactly without knowing the dimensions of the original enclosure. Ironically, this means you can't replace the enclosure without knowing that either. Your best guess would be based on what's in the other apartments in this building.



Aside from esthetics, and really, there are few things as ugly as a naked convector, especially one that looks like a truck radiator, the biggest problem with convectors is that they manage to pack a lot of EDR in a small unit, so it can condense a surprising amount of steam. That means it has to get rid of a lot of water. If that supply valve is 1 1/4", it's probably big enough, but barely. Also, because there is so little mass in proportion to the EDR, it will heat up quickly and cool down just as fast. Unless the whole system is very carefully balanced, I'd expect some wild swings in temperature.

ttekushan_3

I don't know,

I think the bricks are sort of attractive and the air valve is shiny.







Of course, that convector element won't put out the kind of heat it will with the cabinet in place to create the chimney effect. So be careful about that cabinet choice.

Hap_Hazzard

He should have used a cinder block,

so she could get the matching bookcase.

KarenK

Thanks for your thoughts

Thanks everyone for your thoughts about this problem.  We have a lot to think about and I do think will have to speak to the management which is a much more involved issue. 



It sounds like it may not be that feasible to get the enclosures.   They do run very hot then cool off quickly which perhaps is adding to the banging.  (Valves are all the way open as far as I can tell.)



Karen