Help with spewing water from radiator/knocking sounds...

bcccboy

Hi all,



I currently live on the 2nd floor of a 2-family house which is owned by my family (not me) – but I end up doing most of the troubleshooting if anything goes wrong. 

We have a steam heating system and have recently replaced the boiler.

This winter is the first that we’re using it. I’ve noticed that when the heat

turns on in the morning, a couple of things happen to 2 radiators on the 2nd

floor, which also happen to be the ones located physically the farthest from

the boiler (which is in the basement on the other side of the house):



 1.     Radiator #1 (long horizontal pipe encase in

metal shielding/casing at base of wall) has loud knocking and some water spews

out from the release valve.



2.      Radiator #2 (vertical radiator, see picture

below) has water spewing out of the release valve so much that if I don’t close

the valve I will have a pool of water on the floor.



I’ve attached some pictures of the boiler (and the adjacent water heater) as well as some close ups of the boiler. I’ve done reading online and from that I’ve let out some water from the boiler – black water comes out first, followed by clear water.  Though I notice that there is still black stuff in the vertical column of water.



I appreciate any help and thank you in advance!

nicholas bonham-carter

New steam boiler-spurting vents

If you have the installation manual you will see instructions for cleaning the boiler(skimming). This will take several hours, and will remove any surface oils from the water which cause an unsteady waterline, and wet steam. Some mfg's will suggest putting arm&hammer washing soda into the boiler, and boiler for an hour or so, then skimming, and flushing.

Other things you will see in there are the piping instructions, which must be followed exactly, in order to have the steam separate properly from the condensate. Your header should be redone following these instructions, to keep the water from jumping up the pipes.

From your pressure gauge, it looks as though the cut out pressure is set too high, so dial it down as low as it will go.

I would say that your radiator vents may be too fast. Do you have new main vents? Main vents do all the work of allowing the air to escape easily without burning extra gas to force the air out of the system.--NBC

BobC

I'd start

by lowering that pressuretrol to 0.5 PSI with the adjustment screw on top of the case and then take the front cover off the pressuretrol and set the white wheel to 1 (don't touch the wires inside, they may have 120v on them).



I agree with NBC about the boilers header being to low, it needs to be raised so it is a MINIMUM of 28" above the water line; with the headroom you have i would go higher still. He is right about the boiler probably needing to be skimmed and to check the venting rates of the main vents as well as the radiator vents. venting the mains fast and the radiators slowly usually makes for a happy system.



Steam is forgiving but it has to be piped right and the systems water has to be clean.



Bob

bcccboy

steam heat

NBC, I will take a look at the manual.



The boiler has to be cleaned even though its brand new? Or is the black dirty water already sign of this?



Sorry, which is the header?



Is the vertical dial I took a picture of the one I should dial down?



I'm not sure what you mean by main vents, but nothing has changed in the house except for the boiler.



Thanks again,



p.

bcccboy

steam heat

BobC,



I will try to adjust the pressure control when I get home. Can you give tell me which is the header and which is the water line? I'm also not sure what is meant by the main vents.



Thanks for being patient with this!

BobC

Info

The header is that horizontal pipe that is a few inches above the top of the boiler. For proper operation it has to be at least 28" above the waterline which is about half way up your sight glass. The boiler manual usually gives you a measurement to the waterline from the bottom of the boiler and it has a piping diagram that has to be followed for proper operation of the boiler.



The output of the boiler and header goes up and connects to the steam main(s), the steam travels down the mains and then goes off to feed the radiator pipes that feed off the steam main. Someplace towards the end of each steam main there should be an air vent that allows the air to escape so the steam can fill the main. If the main vents are to small or clogged the steam distribution can be very uneven and may not even get to some radiators.



Also that boiler has to be skimmed to get the oil and other contaminants out of it's water, the water in the gauge glass should be clear and not show signs of bouncing up and down more than  +/ - 1/4inch or so. These pictures may help you identify the header, steam main and the main vent locations.



Bob

bcccboy

so i checked

my boiler manual, and the distance from the base to the water line seems to be correct, but the distance recommended by the manual from the bottom of the header to the water line is more than what I actually have. It's supposed to be at least 24", in my case it's about 18...



I changed the settings on the cut in pressure control.



I also found the skimming procedure, but I don't really understand it, and wouldn't feel too comfortable doing it if I don't understand it...what should i do? =T



Also my steam mains appear to be hidden in the ceiling, so I can't seem to access it readily.

bcccboy

checked my boiler this morning

and i saw that the glass gauge on the boiler was pretty much full of black particles in the water...does this mean that the boiler needs to be cleaned out?



on another note, after changing the pressure settings, the knocking has decreased and the spewing water seems to be gone, though i just opened the valve again, so we'll see.

Steamhead

The installation manual is here

once again, I can't attach a PDF, so here's the link:



http://www.williamson-thermoflo.com/en/assets/pdf/en_w_gas_steam-atmospheric_manual.pdf



That boiler piping is all wrong. Not only the height, but also the configuration, and it's producing wet steam. Not sure what size boiler you have, but if it's one of the larger sizes the pipes might have to be bigger as well.

bcccboy

so...

what should i do next? i'm not really sure..=T



if it's left as is, how damaging is it to the heating system/boiler?



thanks for the heads up steamhead.

nicholas bonham-carter

What to do

The original installer needs to repipe this boiler, following the manufacturer's instructions. It would be best to put him on notice now.

You will be wasting fuel, and shortening the life of gas valves and controls with short-cycling, as well as not having the comfort you paid for.

Following the repipe, the pipes should be insulated, and more main venting put on.

A final cleaning/skimming will steady the waterline.--NBC

bcccboy

but...

Since I am not experienced enough to tell whether or not it currently is done correctly (or will be done correctly) - how will I know whether they do it right the second time? This is the issue that I'm having. Should I get a third party involved?0

nicholas bonham-carter

Second pair of eyes

What is your location?

You need a real steam pro. Try the find a contractor button, but don't use the zip code feature.--NBC

bcccboy

I'm located in

Brooklyn NY.



How come I shouldn't use the zip code feature? Will try to search now.



Thanks.

bcccboy

After looking at contractors

I see several that I can choose from, but is there a way to know which one to pick? Can anyone post their company on this site, or do they have to go through some sort of screening process... I don't want o just pick anyone.

bcccboy

any ideas

on how to choose a good contractor from the list on this site? I value your input, thank you!