no heat in one upstairs radiator

norb

for years the radiator in one upstairs bedroom at best gets lukewarm, and even then only in a few finns.

Rest of house in low 70's, comfortable, but that room at 66

vents have been changed but does nothing --all valves are open totally

the cellar main has one vent at very end of main

the cellar main runs with length of house then turns right across the width of house.

The length of main(at end of length is the main vent--none on the right-turn section of piping) heats most of the radiators.  When it takes the right, that portion is what leads to two radiators , one of which is the problem radiator. I think the furnace shuts down before enough steam can get to the bedroom radiator and the other radiator that this section of piping leads to also does not get too hot--only about 5 finn out of maybe 16. 

psi on furnace is basically at zero--needle doesn't move.  What do you think the problem is ???  I would like to have all radiators hot to the touch---this is very frustrating.

Paul48

Main Vents

Add main vents at the end of the main to include all of the radiators. If you provide the size and length of the main, these guys can tell you how much venting you need.

Rod

Problem Radiator

Hi -  Pictures are always a help. Post a picture of your main vent and also tell us the model and size of the vent on your problem radiator.  What type/model vents are you using on your other radiators ?

- Rod

norb

added info

The cellar Main is 35ft long (2 1/4" wide pipe) with a Gorton D VENT at the  end;

The Main (at end of run) then cuts across the width of the house, about 12ft long (1 3/4" wide pipe) with NO VENT on this section---this is the section that leads to a downstairs radiator (42"WIDE X 33"HIGH--VariValve quick vent with adjuster) AND to the upstairs bedroom radiator ( 19"W X 36"HIGH WITH a Gorton D vent--This bedroom radiator never gets hot and the other radiator mentioned gets hot about one-third across its width

The other downstairs radiators are as follows;  kitchen (19"W X 36"H-also the Varivalve), living room (SAME AS KITCHEN), parlor (32"w x 26"h), A 2ND radiator in parlor on opposite wall is the one mentioned above (42"x 33"H).  All of these has the VariValve.

The upstairs radiators are as follows:  BEDROOM1 (19"W X 36"H), bedroom2 (same), Bedroom3 (IS THE PROBLEM ROOM--no heat and the Gorton D), bathroom is a baseboard radiator (44"w x 12"h--with VariValve)

any ideas?  from what i read, it sounds like i need more main vents--what about a main vent on the 12ft main the runs the width of the house?

Thanks

norb

added info

The cellar Main is 35ft long (2 1/4" wide pipe) with a Gorton D VENT at the  end;

The Main (at end of run) then cuts across the width of the house, about 12ft long (1 3/4" wide pipe) with NO VENT on this section---this is the section that leads to a downstairs radiator (42"WIDE X 33"HIGH--VariValve quick vent with adjuster) AND to the upstairs bedroom radiator ( 19"W X 36"HIGH WITH a Gorton D vent--This bedroom radiator never gets hot and the other radiator mentioned gets hot about one-third across its width

The other downstairs radiators are as follows;  kitchen (19"W X 36"H-also the Varivalve), living room (SAME AS KITCHEN), parlor (32"w x 26"h), A 2ND radiator in parlor on opposite wall is the one mentioned above (42"x 33"H).  All of these has the VariValve.

The upstairs radiators are as follows:  BEDROOM1 (19"W X 36"H), bedroom2 (same), Bedroom3 (IS THE PROBLEM ROOM--no heat and the Gorton D), bathroom is a baseboard radiator (44"w x 12"h--with VariValve)

any ideas?  from what i read, it sounds like i need more main vents--what about a main vent on the 12ft main the runs the width of the house?

Thanks

Rod

Varivents

Hi - After reading your latest post I think the Varivalves might be the root of your problem.  They have very high capacity venting and this can cause of an imbalance in your system which starves some of your radiators (the ones that don’t get hot) 

     There is a old steam adage which says, “Vent your mains fast and your radiators slow!”

The more I play about with radiator balancing, the more I have respect for this adage.

Let’s first of all consider the mains.  We want the steam mains to vent as quickly as possible so that the mains are completely full of steam before steam starts entering the radiators.  You’re now using a Gorton “D” for a main vent and that is probably too slow for your system.  On top of that you have varivalves on the radiators. Wide open, the Varivalve has the capacity of a Hoffman # 75 main vent and has almost twice the venting capacity of the Gorton “D” which you are now using as a main vent.

 Steam travels from areas of high pressure to areas of lower pressure so let’s look at it from a steam molecule’s standpoint when it first enters your steam main. There’s an area of low pressure way down the end of the steam main (the Gorton “D” vent) or a closer area of low pressure in the first radiator off the steam main (courtesy of the Varivalve) so which low pressure area do you think the steam molecule is likely to choose?  A larger main vent at the end of the main would be make it more attractive for the steam molecule to travel that way.



Let’s now consider the radiators.  Let’s go back to the first radiator on the main which we were mentioning above.  Sine the Varivent has large capacity venting, the air is being pushed out quickly and being replaced by steam. When the steam touches the cold metal insides of the radiator it immediately condenses from a volume of 1 cubic ft of steam to a cubic inch of water. This creates a huge vacuum which results in a very large pressure differential between the pressure in the steam main and pressure the inside of the radiator. This differential will cause our molecule and his friends to  forget about the Gorton “D” main vent at the end of the steam main and go straight into the first radiator.  The larger radiators with their large internal condensing surfaces will hog all the available steam and the smaller radiators especially those farther from the boiler will be starved.  After a period of time the large radiators heat up and the condensing inside them slows and frees up more steam for the radiators farther down the main. If the boiler was on long enough these radiators woiuld finally heat up but since the thermostat is usually in a room with a large radiator that room heats up quickly and the thermostat turns off the boiler before the smaller radiators are heated up.

The solution to this is as the adage says, “vent your radiators slow”.  Using a small capacity radiator vent means steam enters the radiator more slowly and therefore the condensing doesn’t get out of control. This frees up more steam for the other radiators so they get their fair share of the steam produced.



  The following are venting capacity figures are taken from Gerry Gill’s excellent venting book



Main Vents                               Radiator Vents

Gorton #1       0.330                  Varivalve Min Setting         0.065

Gorton #2       1.100                  Varivalve 50% Setting        0.340

Hoffman #75   0.500                  Varivalve Max Setting         0.516

                                                Gorton “D”                         0.330



I would first of all suggest you increase your main venting. If there is room above the main I would suggest a Gorton #2.  On the radiators I would suggest you try turning  the Varivalves down the their minimum setting and on the problem cold radiators set the varivents at the 50 percent setting or use a Gorton "D". Let us know how it works out.

- Rod

                                                                                                  

norb

thanks to rod

thanks for the information----i will try this out and let you know how it works.

from everything i have been reading, and from what you also say, it does sound

like the main needs  more venting.

thanks again

norb

follow up question

if if have a 3/4 inch threaded main vent screwed into the piping , and later decide to install a Gorton#2 ( which I believe has a 1/2 inch thread), is there a plumbing part I can screw into the 3/4 inch opening and then into the opposite end, attach the Gorton?  So is there and adapter part I can use? and if so, what is the part exactly that I would use?  or would the piping have to be totally changed out to accomodate the Gorton?

Rod

Pipe Bushing

Hi- Use a 3/4 x 1/2 Pipe Bushing (see attached picture)  Any plumbing store or Home Depot should have it. Get one in either black iron or brass. Galvanized fitting tend to flake off small pieces of the zinc plates which can then get stuck in the vent holes.

- Rod  

norb

pressuretrol

i have a a honeywell pressuretrol. My question is: mine is set on the cut-in

on the left-side of the scale to just under five, do not know what the inside dial is set at.  the meter  needle does not even move when the furnace is running.

How should I adjust these or should I? and if I wanted to see the needle move toward 2 what should I do to accomplish this?  I have enclosed a picture of the type of pressuretrol I have--this one is set to 1/2 it appears whereby mine is set to just under 5--and as I mentioned,my needle does not move.  I am ordering the Gorton 2 vent for my main and will try that before bothering the set-up on the pressuretrol, but I want to know how they should be set-- the outer control and the differential dial on the inside ( just incase i need to do this)

norb

tried the Gorton no 2

I replaced the Main vent with a Gorton 2.  The steam is now traveling nicely throughout system, and I made the adjustments to the other radiators that you suggested.  However, the same problem remains.  The upstairs bedroom ( farthest from the boiler) still is cold to the touch , it has a Gorton D vent which is not blocked---it is in good shape.  I do notice this:  the valve on the floor is piping hot, but the heat does not get into the radiator.  Is there a blockage? and if so, I do I fix this?  The only way THIS radiator will get hot is if I really crank the temperature on the thermostat, which I do not want to do. I want the rad to get hot under "normal" settings and cycles.

puff_puff_hiss

did you try

did you try slowing all the other radiators in your house down,  or maybe start with slowing down the radiator that is in the room where the thermostat is so that you don't have to crank on the heat, but rather the system will continue to run since it won't so quickly satisfy the thermostat and shut down? your boiler doesnt run any harder when you crank on the heat,  it just runs longer,  so if you slowed the other ones down, you might get heat to the cold room.



OR



the supply valve has gone bad. 



I am working through a similar problem except my problem includes a variable having to do with water coming out the vent in the cold room, so i am right there with you,

Steamhead

Check the pitch of the runout

that feeds the two slow radiators. If there is no drip line at the end of this pipe, it should slope one inch in ten feet toward the steam main. If there is, it should slope one inch in 20 feet toward the drip.



The pressuretrol is set too high- crank it down!