My next task...sump pump problem

Bebes

Hi again. I live in Jersey, and like many people here, lost power. My sump pump went out, and since I've been getting a fair amount of water in the basement, that's a problem I need to resolve. I've done lots of projects to stop the water coming in, but I'd like to see if I can work out the sump situation too. Last night I heard about the Liberty pump, and want to know what y'all think about them. My washing machine used to be right next to the pump, so I think I have the water hookup at the ready.

Thanks

SWEI

Liberty Pumps

Nice product range, good company to deal with.  I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

Bebes

SWEI

Do you know how much water this pump can handle...I heard that's a serious consideration.

Bebes

I would also like to know...

how do I hook it up. Can I use the supply line from the washer? If the sump pump hose is that flexible black stuff, is that a problem?

SWEI

Which pump?

http://www.libertypumps.com/Products/Category/?c=14

Bebes

SWEI

The SJ10 is what I was thinking of using.

SWEI

water-powered pump

No experience with that particular pump.  The engineering specifications spell out what it can do - top of p.3 on http://www.libertypumps.com/Data/EngineerSpecifications/SJ10_R3-12.pdf

Bebes

OK

So, if I understand the chart correctly, if I have 50 psi, which is what I think I have (does that sound normal for a town water system?), and my rise is 4' (it's about that, maybe 5' or 6' at the most) then I can remove around 17 gallons of water per minute. That would be more than enough for what I need.

SWEI

sounds about right

Remember that lift is measured from the top of the water in your basement to the discharge hose outlet.

icesailor

Water powered sump pumps:

If you pay for your town water, be sure that you understand that the pump will use a lot of water that you will pay for to get rid of the sump water. It will use at least one gallon of municipal water for every gallon of sump water it pumps. Maybe a lot more.

Bebes

Alright

so, all I gotta do now is find out how to install it.



Thanks so much for your help.

Barb

Bebes

Ice

When I first heard about this pump, I thought it was crazy for the reason you're stating. But the person who told me about it last night said her husband checked it out and it only cost them $5 more....certainly worth it. I just checked my water bill, and for 2,000 gallons of water it cost me $11.88, plus the service charge. That gets me thinking....is there a way to reduce the amount of water going thru without lowering the pressure so much that the pump won't work?

Eric_32

Those Liberty

those Liberty pumps have a 3/4" inlet for the water supply. We installed one once for a customer whose main pump died and flooded his finished basement. This was a back up to the battery back up, so there was 3-different pumps in the hole. All installed (after the flood) at slightly higher elevations for their float switches.

 We had to run a 3/4" line across the basement even though there was a 1/2" line closer. I wouldn't take a chance feeding it with the 1/2".

He never had to use it yet.  

Steve_210

Why not

Use a pump with a battery backup?

russiand

Have this pump

I think it's a good product and can save you in a pinch, when the power is out.  I have had mine for about a year and it saved me a number of times. The battery operated ones are great but if the power is out for extended periods (as it has been for some now), the battery will drain. I would run 3/4 copper or pex to it for sure otherwise you won't have enough pressure to effectively pump. To be legal you have to install a backflow preventer before it. Some people complained about the spring loaded check valve in the pickup end, I  took mine out.The float assembly is plastic so you have to be delicate with it and also position it correctly above your main pumps ativation level.  I I also added a water hammer arrestor to mine as it can bang the pipes pretty hard when the valve shuts.

Bebes

Eric...

As it turns out, my 3/4" supply line to the house is right there, so that's good. Do you know of a place that shows a step by step process for putting the Liberty pump in, or can someone outline it for me here.. I'm a homeowner who does her own work, for the most part.

Bebes

sprinter

the battery backup isn't really working around here, cuz with all the old trees around, we tend to be out of power for a week....there's plenty of people who are still out from Sandy, and aren't even sure when they'll get turned back on. I want to go away for almost two months, with peace of mind..:)

Bebes

russ

Some questions, if you don't mind.

1) How much pressure does it require. I swear someone told me we actually run at around 80 pounds here. 2) When you say the backflow preventer has to be "before it", does that mean that it's on the incoming 3/4" line, before the pump. I heard you have to be careful that the water doesn't keep flowing from the house and flood you that way. 3) I also read about the spring loaded check valve malfunctioning. I'm not sure what that it, although I guess I will find out in the manual. Is it obvious, if you take that first link that SWEI gave me? 4) I have a submersible pump...how do I get the Liberty to be above that...do I make some kind of shelf, or what? 5) Where does the water hammer arrestor go? That's all for now.

russiand

Interesting

http://www.libertypumps.com/Data/EngineerSpecifications/SJ10_R3-12.pdf

That gives pretty good info on how many GPM per verious pressure levels you can expect. The backflow preventor does go onto the 3/4 line before it connects to the pump, and between that and the pump is where I have the arrestor(which is optional). The pump itself mounts onto the discharge pipe of your main pump with a clamp. Its made for a 1 1/2" pipe diameter I believe. So you'll need to establish the right level for the pump and then run your piping to it. They include a paper cutout that you can use to make holes in the existing lid of the sump pit or make your own or something. As far as the pump itself failing and flooding you further, that sounds like a possibility but so could your washing machine hoses, water heater, refrigerator ice maker, etc. Some risk we just have to live with I guess, as it is inherent in many things around the house:)

Bebes

OK, russ....

I just went and checked...I have 1 1/2" pvc and I have a piece of 3/4 copper,  I figure I'll come off the supply line with that and then go to pex...that's OK, right?  I went ahead and made a drawing of what I have and what I think is supposed to happen. Feel free to correct anything. Notice that the supply line reduces to 1/2" on the left corner...guess I'll need to fix that.

russiand

Looks good

I would add a ball valve somewhere before the backflow preventor as well just so you could service the thing if need be. Also I assume you have a check valve somewhere in the current 1 1/2" PVC vertical piping. You will need another one in the backup pump discharge line as well.

Bebes

Well, not so much

as far as the check valve goes. I have floppy black plastic hose right now for the sump pump. What does a check valve look like, and what does it do? The ball valve is a great idea. I might get crazy and put one in to replace the old kind I have now, right after the water enters the basement...you know, the kind you turn round and crank down. Since I need to replace the 1/2 inch on the left of the diagram, I figure what the hell. Unless you tell me I'd be heading for big trouble.

russiand

Not sure on the terminology I got mine at HD

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100021846&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100021846&ci_kw=%7bkeyword%7d&kwd=%7bkeyword%7d&cm_mmc=shopping%2d%5f%2dgoogleads%2d%5f%2dpla%2d%5f%2d100021846&ci_gpa=pla

They are a flapper disk rubber thingy. You need two one for each side before going into the Y.

russiand

Not sure on the terminology I got mine at HD

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100021846&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100021846&ci_kw=%7bkeyword%7d&kwd=%7bkeyword%7d&cm_mmc=shopping%2d%5f%2dgoogleads%2d%5f%2dpla%2d%5f%2d100021846&ci_gpa=pla

They are a flapper disk rubber thingy. You need two one for each side before going into the Y.

Bebes

Thanks so much

for sticking with me thru all my questions....you are a good teacher. Until I can afford the parts, I'm gonna keep working on getting the water to not come in the basement in the first place!

Bebes

russ, I've been thinking...

about the order of the devices on the line where the water comes into the house. Right now, the shut off valve is first, then the pressure reducer valve, then the meter, and I was gonna cut into the line after that. Since I intend to undo and redo those three things, so I can put a new shut off valve in, my question is....if I do have more pressure than usual, couldn't I use that pressure to reduce the amount of water that goes into the Liberty pump, and save on water, by reducing to 1/2" copper?I'd have to change the order of things, but.... I just hate the idea of wasting water. I suppose I could try to recover the water mix on the outside, but our water has so much chlorine in it, I don't even water my vegetable garden with it, so I'm not sure what I could do with the mix coming out. Just a thought. Do you know how much pressure is required to run the Liberty pump?

Bebes

So, here's what I learned

I just called Liberty  to find out the best way to use the least amount of house water in removing sump water. He said that it has to do with how far the water has to go to get out of the house. In my case, mine only has to go up 5-6 feet, no vertical run, so that is the optimal condition. I wondered if reducing the pressure, right before the pump, would save me using house water, but he said the pressure only determines how fast the water leaves the house; less pressure....less water moving....so there's no point to doing that. He also said that in my case, I would use 1 gallon of house water to remove 2 gallons of sump water...so I was psyched about that.



Just thought some of you might want to know that, for the future.



Thanks again for your help.