Purchasing a new System which is unfamiliar to me...please advise

GermanMajor

We will be installing a new heating/DHW system within the

next month and being new home owners I would appreciate any input/suggestions

anyone might have regarding the options we’ve been given by a couple of local

heating companies. Our previous home (which we lost to a house fire 7 months

ago) was heated by wood and used an electric hot water heater. The new home has

an oil fired boiler which also supplies the hot water. The boiler is very old (original

to the house) and we knew it would need to be replaced soon, but it had

recently been serviced and many of the parts replaced within the last 2 years

according to all the receipts and service records. We knew we were on borrowed

time and were hoping to limp along until spring, but that is not the case.

We’ve lived in Maine for 4 years now and unfortunately we’ve never dealt with a

boiler system.  I am sure I am

giving too much information about the home, but hopefully it will paint a

better picture of what we are working with.



The home we purchased is an older 1954 ranch with 3

bedrooms, 1 bath, full basement, and insulated 1 car attached garage. The attic

is insulated, how much I am unsure of, but the inspector did say it was above

what he usually sees when looking at attics. The home has had newer vinyl siding

installed and the previous owners had all the windows replaced with the newer

energy efficient tilt style except the living room which has two very large

5’x5’ picture style windows. I have resealed them and will be purchasing storm

windows for them this week. I would like to replace them with more energy

efficient ones, but it’s not part of the budget this time.



We have been using one oil filled radiator style heater and one

6quartz style heater for the last 2 months and they’ve maintained a comfortable

temperature (70) inside the whole house with an electric bill around $120. I

could easily have it warmer if we chose, but I would rather save the

electric.  It’s not my ideal

electric bill, but we are now in a position to replace the heating and hot water

so the electric bill will drop quite a bit. The basement itself has maintained

a temperature of about 61 in the coldest spot and with the coldest months

approaching I realize that will also be an issue with pipes.



The rooms all have 7ft ceilings and hot water baseboards around

the exterior wall.



The measurements of the baseboards are as follows:



Two of the bedrooms have 10ft and 8ft long baseboards and

two insulated windows.



The third bedroom has 5ft of exterior wall, but it has two

5ft lengths stacked upon each other behind the baseboard cover, so 10ft of

baseboard in one 5ft space.



The Living room has baseboards that run 10ft, 20ft and 6ft

long and unfortunately the living room is the only room that wasn’t upgraded to

the newer vinyl/tilt in windows and therefore it has 2 large picture size

windows approx 5ftx5ft.



The kitchen has 8ft and then a 3ftx2ft corner section and

lastly the bath has a 4ft piece.



The baseboards have the fins attached to copper piping and

they appear to be 5 fins per inch and the baseboards are 5inches from floor to

top of the fin. The casings are 8inches from floor to top.



We have hardwood and vinyl flooring throughout and I had to

admit they were great in the summer as the floors were cooler, but during the

winter it’s not as wonderful.



A couple of suggestions that we’ve been given are



#1 Replace the oil boiler with a propane Viessmann Vitodens 100w

with combi unit.  I would have the external temperature monitor. The contractor also said he would put a largecast iron radiator in the basement to help with the systems condensing. We were told that with the Viessmann our fuel consumption would be saved and because we have so many baseboards around the house it’s a good thing.  This system would be installed and the vent will be run up the chimney.





 My concerns are with the reviews I have seen for the

Viessmann. I did notice that everyone seems to recommend an inline filter for

the system to remove sludge or particles. I do not want to purchase a system

and find out that I am going to be paying a lot of money in service calls.



Option #2 has been to put in a Biasi B10-4 oil fired boiler,

but the chimney may have to be lined. I don’t want to cut corners and if that

needs to be done, then so be it, but it was not figured into the original

estimate



Option #3 install the Biasi oil fired boiler, but put a hot water electric tank in separately





I do have one set of estimates still to come in and one company that deals in Rinnai coming out on Monday. We have so many choices and

unfortunately these systems are so new to us that I would appreciate some

feedback or suggestions. Systems I should be thinking about? Should I not

consider propane? Should I worry about sludge in my system since it’s from the

50’s? If anyone has another suggestion for the heating/hot water I’m very open

to hear them. We are in Western Maine and so it does get chilly.



I would like to see this done correctly to prevent issues in

the future and with this being our first time with baseboards and a boiler I

felt it best to get the advice of those who know these systems and what they

are capable of.

Steamhead

We do not

discuss pricing on this board.

GermanMajor

I apologize and will correct immediately

I apologize I will take the prices off. I only meant them as reference points for what I was looking at. I apologize. Thank you for catching it so I can correct the issue.

GermanMajor

I apologize and will correct immediately

I apologize I will take the prices off. I only meant them as reference points for what I was looking at. I apologize. Thank you for catching it so I can correct the issue.

Xavier Breath

Can you elaborate on a couple of things?

1. The contractor also said he would put a largecast iron radiator in the basement to help with the systems condensing.  This statement is strange to me.

2. Is one supplier of fuel more reliable than the other?

3. What is the length of the lined chimney run?

4. Does Maine require a condensate neutralizing setup?

GermanMajor

Xavier, Thank you very much.

 I appreciate any info/advice you might have. I am trying to be as informed as possible in order to make this decision so that I’m not purchasing something that I will later regret.I don’t want to be choosing the cheapest system for price, or the most expensive system if it’s not right for me. I also want to make sure the person we are hiring is

installing everything correctly i.e., flushing lines and installing a filtration system if needed.

We are new in town and we’ve used our current company for service calls a couple of times. They’ve always been courteous and informative, but I don’t have the 15yr relationship with them that I had with our service company out west and therefore I’m asking more questions. I am trying to be a responsible homeowner while building confidence with the new company. I want to ask whether they flush the system before installing the new boiler or if they install filtration systems on older systems etc, but I don’t want to insult them either by asking too many questions. I am just at a loss as to what is proper for install and what to make of the boiler decision. It’s a big

difference from throwing wood into a stove or flicking a breaker switch.



To hopefully answer the questions you’ve asked,



#1 The contractor mentioned that he could put the large radiator

style heater in the basement to help with the dampness, cold floors and to “dump”

excess heat before it cycled back into the boiler. I myself am confused about

how that works. He commented on the fact that we had a lot of baseboards and

that was great for the condensing system, but adding the extra radiator would

help with it’s efficiency and the other issues I mentioned. 



#2 The fuel is not an issue in regards to reliability, but

the propane company here has remained much more stable. I am not sure if I can

put the oil/propane price on the site. It is however about $1 cheaper per

gallon for propane.



#3 The Chimney is not lined, it has cinder blocks only. This

was also pointed out when we started getting our estimates. The Chimney is

about 21ft I would say from the basement to the roof.  Two companies said it needed a liner and one said it didn’t.

The previous owners never did anything to bring it up to code because they

didn’t replace the boiler (only parts like the burn box and gauges). One of the

main issues we were told propane would be better is because of the cost we

would incur to run the new chimney liner for oil. If oil is better and would be

more beneficial I would have the liner installed and go that route.



#4 I truly don’t know if Maine requires a condensate neutralizing setup.

BobC

Propane cost

Oil has 140,000 BTU per gallon and propane is 92,000 BTU per gallon so that means you will get about 65% of the heat out of a gallon of propane as you will a gallon of oil. In the Boston are oil is going for about $3.50 a gallon so you would have to be able to get propane for $2.28 a gallon for the same amount of heat in this area.



I'm sure the prices are different up where you are, just make sure you understand the difference.



Bob

Xavier Breath

If you go with Viessmann...

and you utilize the chimney, you will need to line it with approved material, which is AL294C stainless and provide a condensate drain.  The expense to line the chimney with AL294C venting I would find to be cost prohibitive.  However ff you can vent the Viessmann through a sidewall with CPVC,  that is much less expensive.  As a side note, if you go with propane you have gas cooking, clothes drying and hot water.  I checked and Maine has exhausted its rebates for high-efficient heating equipment, so no luck there.

Xavier Breath

If you go with Viessmann...

and you utilize the chimney, you will need to line it with approved material, which is AL294C stainless and provide a condensate drain.  The expense to line the chimney with AL294C venting I would find to be cost prohibitive.  However ff you can vent the Viessmann through a sidewall with CPVC,  that is much less expensive.  As a side note, if you go with propane you have gas cooking, clothes drying and hot water.  I checked and Maine has exhausted its rebates for high-efficient heating equipment, so no luck there.

Gordan

There's the flexible polypropylene liner, too

Not as expensive.

Xavier Breath

I was not aware polypropelene

is Viessmann approved.  That's good news.  That AL294C can be a real ripoff